Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon

Started by spuwho, August 22, 2014, 09:37:07 PM

Adam White

Quote from: finehoe on June 20, 2016, 08:33:18 AM



The numbers are questionable, and the idea of gaining the support of distant, landlocked Niger in a dispute about the South China Sea could seem faintly ludicrous.



Kind of like the USA's so-called "Coalition of the Willing" for the invasion of Iraq, which included the Marshall Islands, etc.

"If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly."

spuwho

Since when did the US stop or harass a foreign navy from transiting international waters?

If the World Court is so meaningless and weak to the point that China didnt even send a delegation, why do they need a coalition of anyone to offset it?

The new President of the Phillippines has the right idea, its not just about the cash, its about some level of cooperation.  If the Chinese find oil and the cash flows, then in the Phillippines mind that the same as having it themselves if China uses the wealth to help fund Filipino infrastructure.

China is looking for an uncontested grab, Phillippines is looking for leverage.

finehoe

Quote from: spuwho on June 20, 2016, 12:35:44 PM
Since when did the US stop or harass a foreign navy from transiting international waters?

Did someone say that happened?

spuwho

Quote from: finehoe on June 20, 2016, 12:44:58 PM
Quote from: spuwho on June 20, 2016, 12:35:44 PM
Since when did the US stop or harass a foreign navy from transiting international waters?

Did someone say that happened?

References to US hypocrisy are mentioned liberally. I was trying to determine what we were being judged on.

finehoe

Quote from: spuwho on June 20, 2016, 01:05:23 PM
References to US hypocrisy are mentioned liberally. I was trying to determine what we were being judged on.

All you have to do is read the article linked to.

QuoteAnd this is where American double standards come in. Despite efforts by the Bush and Obama administrations, the Senate has never ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

So when the United States, the European Union and Japan urge China to respect a "rules-based" international system, the admonishments often come across here as insincere.

Japan, experts point out, has ignored a 2014 ruling from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) against its whaling operations, and the United States ignored a 1986 ICJ ruling against the Reagan administration's support for contra rebels in Nicaragua.

"More importantly, because the United States has never ratified UNCLOS, countries that have maritime disputes with it are unable to take it to legal arbitration," said Storey, arguing that the issue has become "even more glaringly apparent" in the run-up to the ruling.

Although the U.S. government says it follows UNCLOS as "customary international law," its failure to submit itself formally to its provisions rankles many nations — especially China.

"China is trying to emulate components of American exceptionalism that place the U.S. above other nations and international law," said Yanmei Xie, a senior analyst at the International Crisis Group. "The U.S. not ratifying UNCLOS just proves China's point."

Wang Dong, an associate professor in the School of International Studies at Peking University, underlined China's frustration with American "hypocrisy."

spuwho

Sorry, I thought your post quoted the entire article, hence the gap in the commentary.

China begs diplomacy with their words by aggregating other nations to stand with them, but cant raise a finger to talk to the countries directly involved.

Lots of hypocrisy in the air it seems.

BridgeTroll

yet more diplomacy...

https://theaviationist.com/2016/06/19/things-heat-up-near-south-china-sea-two-u-s-aircraft-carriers-b-52s-and-ea-18g-growler-detachment/



QuoteThings heat up near South China Sea: two U.S. aircraft carriers, B-52s and EA-18G Growler detachment

Some interesting photographs have been arriving from the troubled waters of Indo-Asia-Pacific region.

The most recent ones, released on Jun. 18, show the USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) and USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) carrier strike groups (CSG 3 and CSG 5) crusing close each other during dual carrier flight operations in the Philippine Sea.

Such operations included air combat training, long-range strike training, air defense drills as well as sea surveillance.

The CSG 3, that started operations in the Western Pacific on Feb. 4, consists of the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74), guided-missile cruiser USS Mobile Bay (CG 53) and guided-missile destroyers of Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 21, USS Stockdale (DDG 106), USS Chung-Hoon (DDG 93) and USS William P. Lawrence (DDG 110), and the aircraft of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 9.

CSG 5, begun its summer patrol of the Indo-Asia Pacific, on Jun. 4, and consists of the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76), guided-missile cruisers USS Shiloh (CG 67) and USS Chancellorsville (CG 62) and guided-missile destroyers from Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 15, USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG 54), USS McCampbell (DDG 85), USS Benfold (DDG 65); the aircraft of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, is forward-deployed to Yokosuka, Japan and routinely, patrols the Western Pacific.

Click the link above for more...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

finehoe

Despite China's massive investments in military modernization, U.S. armed forces will retain superiority over potential adversaries for decades to come, Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter said June 20. His remarks came at a time when defense officials and analysts are sounding the alarm that U.S. technological superiority is eroding as Beijing continues to beef up its military capabilities. While not directly naming China as a potential challenger, the Pentagon chief made it clear that he doesn't foresee any rising powers overtaking Uncle Sam anytime soon. "Thanks to the investments and planning we're undertaking as part of President Obama's rebalance to the Asia-Pacific, the United States will have the people, the platforms and the posture to remain the most powerful military and main underwriter of security in the region for decades," Carter said at a conference hosted by the Center for a New American Security in Washington, D.C.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=2225

Gunnar

But how much of it will be made in China to increase profits  ;)
I want to live in a society where people can voice unpopular opinions because I know that as a result of that, a society grows and matures..." — Hugh Hefner

Non-RedNeck Westsider

Quote from: finehoe on June 21, 2016, 08:40:41 AM
"Thanks to the investments and planning we're undertaking as part of President Obama's rebalance to the Asia-Pacific, the United States will have the people, the platforms and the posture to remain the most powerful military and main underwriter of security in the region for decades,"

My insightful contribution to this post:

A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
-Douglas Adams

finehoe

From People's Daily Online:

QuoteThe United States is a country outside the territory of the South China Sea, coming from one side of the Pacific Ocean all the way to the other side of the Pacific Ocean to demonstrate their military power is for the purpose of intensifying the situation and to provoke disturbances and break peaceful stability and then to fish in troubled water and make an effort to maintain hegemony thereat at all costs. This deceitful business is despised in the regard of international law, and it is also harmful to the security benefits of the country.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0622/c90000-9075995.html

spuwho

China believes it is the real victim in the South China Sea dispute

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/11/china-believes-it-is-the-real-victim-in-the-south-china-sea-dispute/

After months of posturing and news releases, Beijing on Monday published what may be its definitive domestic statement on the South China Sea arbitration case. And, boy, is it revealing.

In a front-page editorial published the day before the Permanent Court of Arbitration is set to rule, the People's Daily, a Communist Party mouthpiece, argues that it is China, not the Philippines, that is the "real victim," casting the case as a foreign "plot" to weaken and humiliate China.

"The facts have proved clearly that the Philippines South China Sea arbitration case is completely a "trap" targeting China, which is hyped and manipulated by the U.S., led by the Philippines, and with cooperation from the arbitration courtroom," it says.

If you've been following the very loud run-up to Tuesday's ruling, some of this is old news. In recent weeks, Chinese authorities have launched a massive, multilingual push aimed at discrediting the arbitration and disseminating the Chinese point of view.

A former diplomat preemptively labeled the ruling a piece of "trash paper." State media called the court "law abusing." One paper accused The Hague of "playing the fool" by allowing the Philippines to air its claims.

What's interesting about the People's Daily piece is how it merges a story about law with one of the Communist Party's most potent narratives: national humiliation.

If you are following China from outside the country, particularly from the United States, you are probably used to hearing China discussed in terms of its "rise." The U.S. tends to talk about China as a country growing ever-richer and stronger, as a soon-to-be superpower about to supplant Uncle Sam. (See, for instance, Donald Trump's comments in the early Republican debates.)

Not here. When the ruling Communist Party talks about China's place in the world, it is less likely to talk about the country's rise than its "rejuvenation" after a century of humiliation that started with Qing losses to the barbarian British during the Opium Wars and lasted until the founding of the People's Republic in 1949.

President Xi Jinping, who came to power in 2012, has made the "great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation" one of his signature slogans, drawing a rhetorical line between the humiliation and suffering of the past and the strong, proud China of the future.

In a major speech last September, he called Japan's defeat in World War II a "great triumph" that "crushed the plot of the Japanese militarists to colonize and enslave China and put an end to China's national humiliation of suffering successive defeats at the hands of foreign aggressors in modern times."

State media are now using similar language to describe the maritime disputes that have pitted China against smaller, less prosperous neighbors, most notably the Philippines.

A recent China Daily editorial headlined "China will not swallow bitter pill of humiliation" drew a direct link between the suffering of the Opium War era and the as-yet-revealed findings of the Permanent Court of Arbitration.

"The days have long passed since the country was referred to as the 'sick man of East Asia' whose fate was at the mercy of a few Western powers," it read.

The People's Daily on Monday takes that emotional appeal a step further. "China is growing, but the humiliating experiences of being invaded by outside enemies and bullied by hegemonic powers in more than a century are the inerasable memories of Chinese people," it says.

"Chinese people who have walked through such historical memories will absolutely not allow the replay of 'the humiliating past' even in part."

Having set the tone, Beijing's challenge is to respond to the ruling in a way that will affirm nationalist sentiment, but also keep the peace. When you convince the body politic that dignity and destiny turn on victory, it becomes dangerous to lose.

finehoe

Tribunal Rejects Beijing's Claims in South China Sea

An international tribunal in The Hague delivered a sweeping rebuke on Tuesday of China's behavior in the South China Sea, including its construction of artificial islands, and found that its expansive claim to sovereignty over the waters had no legal basis.

The landmark case, brought by the Philippines, was seen as an important crossroads in China's rise as a global power and in its rivalry with the United States, and it could force Beijing to reconsider its assertive tactics in the region or risk being labeled an international outlaw. It was the first time the Chinese government had been summoned before the international justice system.

In its most significant finding, the tribunal rejected China's argument that it enjoys historic rights over most of the South China Sea. That could give the governments of Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam more leverage in their own maritime disputes with Beijing.

The tribunal also said that China had violated international law by causing "irreparable harm" to the marine environment, endangering Philippine ships and interfering with Philippine fishing and oil exploration.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-sea-hague-ruling-philippines.html

Tacachale

^Can't wait to see China's butthurt response to this...
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

spuwho

For a country that says the tribunal decision is "worthless" and has no value, they sure are making a show out of it.