Dow down 600 points...think its gonna get worse...

[Driven1]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches-092908.aspx

[Doctor_K]

Interestingly, the passage of this rested in the hands of Congressional Democrats.  The Republicans do not have the numbers in the House to either pass or reject legislation on their own.  Don't anyone read too far into that - it's simply meant to be an observation.

Just something to point out before yet another thread descends into political bickering from both sides around here.  Probably won't be pointed out much in the media - online, traditional, CNN, FOX, etc. 

Yet another result of the 24-hour, real-time availaibility of information:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080929/wall_street.html

As the vote was shown on TV, stocks plunged and and investors fled to the safety of the credit markets on fears that the financial system would keep sinking under the weight of failed mortgage debt.

Apparently, House Speaker Pelosi is wrangling to get several Democrats to change their votes as entered.  The vote seems to have been suspended?  Lots of backroom, uber-political somethings-or-other going on in the Democrat side of the House. 

What's interesting to me is that this wasn't an entirely-partisan vote, it seems.

**EDIT**
Here we go:  Final Vote numbers in the House, from CNNMoney.com at 2:18pm:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes

What was supposed to be a 15-minute vote stretched past the half-hour mark as leadership scrambled for support. Investors who had been counting on the rescue plan sent the Dow Jones industrial average down as much as 700 points while watching the measure come up short of the necessary support, before rebounding slightly. The key stock reading was down more than 500 points.

The measure needs 218 votes for passage. Democrats voted 141 to 94 in favor of the plan, while Republicans voted 65 to 133 against. That left the measure with 206 votes for and 227 against.

[Doctor_K]

Further:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/economy/Sunday_talks_bailout/index.htm?postversion=2008092822

Key provisions of the bill
Doling the money out: The $700 billion would be disbursed in stages, with $250 billion made available immediately for the Treasury's use. Authority to use the money would expire on Dec. 31, 2009, unless Congress certifies a one-year extension.

Protecting taxpayers: The ultimate cost to the taxpayer is not expected to be near the amount the Treasury invests in the program. That's because the government would buy assets that have underlying value.

If the Treasury pays fair market value - which investors have had a hard time determining - taxpayers stand a chance to break even or even make a profit if those assets throw off income or appreciate in value by the time the government sells them. If it overpays for the assets, the government could be left with a net loss but would get something back on the open market for the assets when it eventually sells them.

Here's my question:  What in Hades' name does that mean?  How am *I* going to profit from this, exactly?  Am I going to be cut a check from the Federal Government, saying "here - we had good returns"?  Are they going to cut me a tax break in the future, equivalent of whatever the gains on this were?  Not bloodly likely, says I. 

I want them to tell me - draw it out in 5th-grade, draw-it-out-in-crayon-for-me terms - how the hell I, as a taxpayer, am going to profit from any of this.

[BridgeTroll]

Congress is infested with weak willed cowards...

House defeats $700B financial markets bailout 

Sep 29 02:20 PM US/Eastern
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS
Associated Press Writer Write a Comment         



  WASHINGTON (AP) - The House on Monday defeated a $700 billion emergency rescue package, ignoring urgent pleas from President Bush and bipartisan congressional leaders to quickly bail out the staggering financial industry.
Stocks plummeted on Wall Street even before the 228-205 vote to reject the bill was announced on the House floor.

When the critical vote was tallied, too few members of the House were willing to support the unpopular measure with elections just five weeks away. Ample no votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle.

Bush and a host of leading congressional figures had implored the lawmakers to pass the legislation despite howls of protest from their constituents back home.

The vote had been preceded by unusually aggressive White House lobbying, and spokesman Tony Fratto said that Bush had used a "call list" of people he wanted to persuade to vote yes as late as just a short time before the vote.

Lawmakers shouted news of the plummeting Dow Jones average as lawmakers crowded on the House floor during the drawn-out and tense call of the roll, which dragged on for roughly 40 minutes as leaders on both sides scrambled to corral enough of their rank-and-file members to support the deeply unpopular measure.

They found only two.

Bush and his economic advisers, as well as congressional leaders in both parties had argued the plan was vital to insulating ordinary Americans from the effects of Wall Street's bad bets. The version that was up for vote Monday was the product of marathon closed-door negotiations on Capitol Hill over the weekend.

"We're all worried about losing our jobs," Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., declared in an impassioned speech in support of the bill before the vote. "Most of us say, 'I want this thing to pass, but I want you to vote for itâ€"not me.' "
With their dire warnings of impending economic doom and their sweeping request for unprecedented sums of money and authority to bail out cash-starved financial firms, Bush and his economic chiefs have focused the attention of world markets on Congress, Ryan added.

"We're in this moment, and if we fail to do the right thing, Heaven help us," he said

[Doctor_K]

Excellent posting, BT.  One more peice of evidence that most DC politicians are more self-serving that either side will ever care to admit.  Yet another reason there should be Congressional term limits as well.  It's all about CYA in Washington right now, at the expense (literally) of everyone else.

Infuriating.

[Driven1]

Excellent posting, BT.  One more peice of evidence that most DC politicians are more self-serving that either side will ever care to admit.  Yet another reason there should be Congressional term limits as well.  It's all about CYA in Washington right now, at the expense (literally) of everyone else.

Infuriating.

yep - we never will know how the markets would've treated a passage, but I don't think it would've been a HUGE upswing...the intl markets had already spoken before our markets opened today.  they said $700b was not enough to turn things around globally.  this, along with the bad consumer goods spending report that was released over the weekend, spells bad things in the near term for us i believe.  hard to ignore all the signs now.

[Driven1]

For once, I feel like the Congressional Republicans are making a stand for the right thing.

I was with the Dems on this one.  Can't believe i said that.  It was a good package.  Wouldn't have been a panacea, but would've helped.  Doing nothing is going to be worse.

[Driven1]

For once, I feel like the Congressional Republicans are making a stand for the right thing.

I was with the Dems on this one.  Can't believe i said that.  It was a good package.  Wouldn't have been a panacea, but would've helped.  Doing nothing is going to be worse.

OMG.... Pelosi is a freaking idiot.  yeah, if you wanna get something passed, why don't you piss off the voters you need with a speech like this RIGHT BEFORE THE VOTE!!!  WHAT A MORON!!!!!!   The Dems need to eliminate this lamebrain from any position of leadership.  How stupid do you have to be???

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/184803.html

[Ocklawaha]

Has anyone leaped from the top of the BOA tower yet? Better put up the net because here it comes again!

OCKLAWAHA

[Driven1]

S&P 500 down 8.14% now.

It's Black Monday again.

[Driven1]

failed bail out news hitting regional banks hard.  Is Regions Bank (RF) next?  Shares down 33% today.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=RF

[apvbguy]

taking your medicine is not easy and it rarely tastes good but in the end the foul tasting medicine will make the patient better. This bill was a placebo that would have made things feel better but it wouldn't have cured anything.
there is and probably will be more blood running down wall st. but that is the price that has to be paid.

[Driven1]

guys - you may have enough money to not need credit, but the vast majority of Americans are not in the same boat.  where will Middleclass Joe now get his car loan from?  or Mrs. Tanner who wants to open the tanning salon and needs a business loan?  or Mr. and Mrs. Youngmarrieds who have great credit and want to buy their first home and no one has the money to loan them? 

say all that you want to, but please tell me WHERE the loans will come from? 

[BridgeTroll]

guys - you may have enough money to not need credit, but the vast majority of Americans are not in the same boat.  where will Middleclass Joe now get his car loan from?  or Mrs. Tanner who wants to open the tanning salon and needs a business loan?  or Mr. and Mrs. Youngmarrieds who have great credit and want to buy their first home and no one has the money to loan them? 

say all that you want to, but please tell me WHERE the loans will come from? 

They will have to wait.  While waiting they need to save cash so they can put money down when the time comes.  It will come but it looks like we will be in a cash mostly economy for awhile.

Do businesses actually take out loans to make payroll??  I heard this today on CNN...  If this is true it seems to me that there are a lot of businesses that were on a wing and a prayer long before this crisis.  It may be time to clear away the dead wood before the entire forest goes up in flames.  Time to go back to the way things were done 30 years ago.  Less credit... much less and more cash... save your money and live within your means.

[Driven1]

It will loosen up as the market starts resembling reality.

"think positive thoughts, think positive thoughts."

WHERE will this "loosened" up $$ come from?