Sam Mousa: No investments for Downtown until pension reform

[JeffreyS]

I don't get it.  Didn't Brown spend about 4 years trying to reform the pension issues and didn't he run a re-election campaign that consisted of him claiming pension reform was one of his big accomplishments?  I seem to remember that claim.  What exactly did Brown accomplish on this subject and how many thousands of hours were wasted on getting nothing done.  Seems like Curry pretty much started over figuring it all out.

Thanks for asking. What Mayor Brown and our team accomplished was a comprehensive pension reform agreement between the City of Jacksonville (COJ) and the Police and Fire Pension Fund (PFPF) which was projected to save taxpayers more than $1.5 billion. The agreement modified benefits for both current and future employees, established stringent new accountability and transparency reforms for the PFPF, returned negotiations over pension benefits to collective bargaining, and provided a framework for the COJ and PFPF to work together in paying down the fund's unfunded pension liability.

Pension reform is critical for the City's financial future and efforts to achieve it have spanned multiple administrations. Mayor Peyton launched the effort, Mayor Brown achieved the above-referenced comprehensive agreement, and Mayor Curry has now taken the next step in advocating a funding method for addressing the unfunded liability. All of them deserve credit for their attention to this challenge.

Below are some clips about the comprehensive pension reform agreement that was enacted on June 19, 2015. Please do not hesitate to let me know if you have questions or need more information.

http://www.coj.net/welcome/news/mayor,-pension-board-accomplish-historic-reform.aspx

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2015-06-19/story/major-jacksonville-pension-reform-bill-gets-green-light

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/185271-lenny-curry-on-jax-pension-deal-a-tremendous-step

Thank you for clarifying.

[Tacachale]

From what I understand, they're talking about investments that come out of the general budget, not stuff that comes from other sources. So, for instance, they'll probably go ahead with things like Liberty Street/courthouse lot even if the project is ready before the pension plan comes through. And it won't be just Downtown.

I don't like it, but it's a real concern. The city's budget is hard pressed due to the fact that we have to pay around $150 million year to pay down the pension. However, things seem to be going smoothly for the current plan, and there are potential backups as well.

[thelakelander]

What's the plan to sustain things long term?  In my view, the more we continue to spread our public resources across +700 square miles, without dramatically increasing density, the more budgetary problems future generations will face.

[Tacachale]

I don't understand.  When the pension issue was first mentioned (back in like 2008), I understood it to mean that the city contributed each year and another portion was covered by the assumption that the investments would appreciate to increase the total pension fund value.  This worked fine until the market crashed and took out all of that capital appreciation and then some, which the city had to cover in order to honor its obligation. 

Since that time, the market has more than recovered.  Unless we pulled our investments at the bottom (the worst thing you can do), and then reinvested at the top (the second worst thing you can do), I don't understand why millions or billions haven't been added back into the fund due to the market recovering. 

What am I missing?

The pension payments look at projections not just for one year, but decades in the future. When the economy is up, things look good, and there was a tendency to underpay every year, and add additional benefits. Unfortunately, that meant that when the recession happened, we had to pay even more, even as the city budget shrank. Without dedicated revenue going into the pension (ie, a tax), it has to come out of the general budget. That's where we are now - we're so far in that even with a good economy we'll just be treading water.

What's the plan to sustain things long term?  In my view, the more we continue to spread our public resources across +700 square miles, without dramatically increasing density, the more budgetary problems future generations will face.

That particular problem isn't any different here than in other places. It's just spread between different governments in other places (county and city/cities). The pension issue, though, is something we haven't addressed in far too long.

[thelakelander]

^It's definitely not unique. I'm wondering if there is an actual plan to deal with the problem long term because it has a direct impact on the pension situation, IMO.

[FlaBoy]

They are just focusing on this until session is over. I have no problem with that. Like Lake said though, they are still dealing with Liberty and are working to get the Everbank renovations done.

[urbaknight]

All of this will be resolved, only in the event of my departure.

[heights unknown]

Never no good news from my City. Someone or something is always holding it back. We got the old guard southern stiff necks out of the way and now its something else. ALL major Florida cities seem to be moving forward except for BIG JAX. Check out what St. Petersburg is doing now...MOVING FORWARD. Same with Tampa, Miami and Orlando...and not in any order. What...is...the...problem? I want to know! I understand, clearly and elaborately what I just read, but there's just too much red tape in this town. While I am alive and breathing (and I am now 60), nothing will ever get done in BIG JAX. When it does, I will never know.

[heights unknown]

What's the plan to sustain things long term?  In my view, the more we continue to spread our public resources across +700 square miles, without dramatically increasing density, the more budgetary problems future generations will face.

Maybe one solution to this problem (and there might be many), is to abolish consolidation, and re-establish smaller but bigger than 1968 city limits and boundaries; then maybe this will put more umph into injecting more capital not only into downtown but those re-established city limits; going from #10 to say #40 or so population wise...who cares? Let's get this city rolling, and then maybe the people will indeed come in (population wise to live and work here), and add to our revenue. It's not good having a top 10 city in population (due to consolidation), but when people get here, it doesn't even live up to it's credentials, hype, or appearance.

[heights unknown]

We probably could become like Detroit Stephen, yes we could, but only if we want to be. When I was a mid to top level manager, I always taught everyone, and told everyone to never take no for an answer, and that there's always a solution to the problem or problems; and no, I don't have to list what those solutions are. That's what they pay Curry and Company for.......don't they? If our government leaders, and others whether 2nd or 3rd party connection to government want to really see us prosper, they can (the big engine that could?) I think they need to quit piddling, twiddling, and resolving, because not one damn thing are they solving. (did I rhyme that on purpose? Yep, sure did). Just my opinion Stephen.

[marksjax]

I'm not going to pretend to have the depth of understanding some of you obviously have of the pension woes here in Jax.
But I have to wonder a little that maybe Sam Mousa is using the pension as a 'straw man' argument against any meaningful progress or investment in downtown by the city.
That is really a ludicrous statement to make when Mayor Curry and Mayor Browns former administration have ponied up about $100 million for the stadium in the last 24 months.
If these guys running the show in this town would just step aside for some new blood and new ideas we would all be much better off.
Same old crap, nothing changes, no money in the coffers. Except when needed for kissing the NFL's ass.

[heights unknown]

We probably could become like Detroit Stephen, yes we could, but only if we want to be. When I was a mid to top level manager, I always taught everyone, and told everyone to never take no for an answer, and that there's always a solution to the problem or problems; and no, I don't have to list what those solutions are. That's what they pay Curry and Company for.......don't they? If our government leaders, and others whether 2nd or 3rd party connection to government want to really see us prosper, they can (the big engine that could?) I think they need to quit piddling, twiddling, and resolving, because not one damn thing are they solving. (did I rhyme that on purpose? Yep, sure did). Just my opinion Stephen.

Just asking.  But according to your prescription, wouldn't the same be true for figuring out how to make consolidation work?

It wasn't a prescription it was a recommendation; in all due respect, again, it is not my job to fix what's wrong. As a consumer, citizen, etc., it is my job to let them know when I think it's wrong (along with others who feel the same), voice my opinion and displeasure, and tell them and hope that it gets fixed. No, I am not a whiner, but all of this type behavior has been going on for much too long. Don't you think Stephen (in all due respect).

[heights unknown]

I'm not going to pretend to have the depth of understanding some of you obviously have of the pension woes here in Jax.
But I have to wonder a little that maybe Sam Mousa is using the pension as a 'straw man' argument against any meaningful progress or investment in downtown by the city.
That is really a ludicrous statement to make when Mayor Curry and Mayor Browns former administration have ponied up about $100 million for the stadium in the last 24 months.
If these guys running the show in this town would just step aside for some new blood and new ideas we would all be much better off.
Same old crap, nothing changes, no money in the coffers. Except when needed for kissing the NFL's ass.

And WALLA.....THIS is what I was talking about and saying as well; didn't say it in the same way or words that you did, but what I said, means the same thing that you just said, mainly...THEY PIDDLE, TWIDDLE, AND RESOLVE, NOT ONE DAMN THING DO THEY SOLVE. And...it is not our job to fix these things whether we understand the whole process of it or not; they are getting paid DECENT BUCKS to make the BIG BUCKS decisions in running the city. If they can't do that, then STEP ASIDE AND LET SOMEONE ELSE DO IT. Capish?

[acme54321]

And WALLA.....

It's "voila", sorry pet peeve.

[Tacachale]

It's interesting that even when we've had three mayors in a row who were political neophytes with no prior government experience, people still think the solution to our problems is getting "new blood". No, what we need are people who know what the hell they're doing.