High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

I am referring to the section west of SR 528 (convention center interchange).  Basically the same route as the HSR project...

Edit: I sent you a PM Lakelander

Interesting.  Some of the median is being considered for commuter rail and LRT in the Orlando area.

Got it. I just sent a response. If anyone is interested, you can find the old HSR plans and I-4 Beyond and Beyond the Ultimate plans here:

http://www.i4express.com/general_project_documents.shtm

[Ocklawaha]

^^@Ock

How does the A line impact AAF coming to Tampa? To CSX that line is still valuable west of Auburndale. I just can't see them being willing to sell that line to the competition. Maybe when the phosphate industry collapses in 20 years they will sell. But not yet...

I know you want AAF to end at TUS (Tampa Union Station) here, but I really don't think that is going to happen. AAF needs major TOD around stations and TUS in my opinion won't deliver that. The area is too confined with adjacent highways and not really situated properly. Why else is AAF working with FDOT now on the I-4 rail envelop? It's because they desire a better location for their Tampa station and related TOD then what TUS offers.

The old railroad guy in me says that the 'S' line from Plant City south and west into Tampa could have capacity enhancements that would render the 'A' line of no consequence. CSX actually crosses the 'A' line in several places reaching down to the Bone Valley. Also the line through the Bone Valley itself if offered capacity increases could be reconnected with West Lake Wales, reestablishing the old Seaboard Cross-Florida Shortline. The reopened shortline should be good for 3 or so round trips daily from Tampa-Bartow-W. Lake Wale-Sebring-W. Palm Beach-Ft. Lauderdale-Miami.


TAMPA UNION STATION

For you Jaxson's that have no connection to Tampa, and to those who still believe that a 'back in movement' was a killer at Jacksonville Terminal, check out the fully restored TUS TAMPA UNION STATION.


BACK IN MOVE TO TUS IN 1974 (photo from 'Alco Mike')


BACK IN MOVE TO TUS TODAY

I like TUS as I'm thinking vertical not horizontal, not unlike downtown Miami, both JAX and TAMPA could use AAF's dense high-rise building concepts. There is great benefit to having all of your rail, and better yet, all of your surface options moving in and out of a single station and in that case TUS is a turn-key opportunity. Recent rail freight yard abandonments nearby, the apartments and vacant land to the west, all offer lots of opportunity to expand. I also think it would be cheaper to use the TUS and install new ramps on the Selmon then to blow an entirely new rail route and station through the middle of town. TUS as a historical working station also has the potential to anchor a huge revitalization of the entire area much as Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal LAUPT has done.

As for CSX playing ball or our lousy Amtrak service in Florida consider that the state holds the keys to the biggest incentive in the world... MONEY. Call that taxes if you'd like but imagine if the state swapped tax exemption on property that carried passenger rail? Imagine that such a plan could include a sliding scale that could even rate and reward in kind. Just as an example 70% exemption for 2-6 round trips daily,  trains 90% on time and we'll exempt another 5%, food service another 5%, etc... State and member railroads share in promotion of the trains and we'd have a system of getting out of both Amtrak and improving our options. Florida should use that trump card and be a pioneer. 

[Jaxson]

I particularly appreciate that Orlando and Tampa use their respective historic passenger rail stations.  I believe that it is unfortunate that Jacksonville continues to use its 'Amshack' on Clifford Lane.

[exnewsman]

I understand that Amtrak is resisting moving downtown from its current location. Could be posturing. Why would they possibly want to stay in that location versus a renovated Jacksonville Terminal?

[thelakelander]

Perhaps relocation cost or ownership of the facility in use?

[tufsu1]

Luckily for AAF, that won't affect them as they will end in downtown Tampa. The only I-4 interchanges I'm aware of that might need rebuilding are I-4 at 559 and the eastern Polk County Parkway interchange.  I know that the  CSX bridge will be an issue in Lakeland as well. All other bridges from my understanding will be compatible with future rail alignments. That is why I say AAF won't have a big issue expanding to Tampa. FDOT is pretty much fixing the problem areas before AAF will build.

It won't affect AAF, but it might have a major impact on the potential for local/regional rail transit in Tampa Bay...of course, I'm far from convinced that FDOT has any real interest in seeing that come to fruition.

[tufsu1]

I understand that Amtrak is resisting moving downtown from its current location. Could be posturing. Why would they possibly want to stay in that location versus a renovated Jacksonville Terminal?

Like Greyhound, they expect others to pay for new stations.  And of course right now, trains would have to back up in one direction due to the missing track to/from the southwest

[Brian_Tampa]

Luckily for AAF, that won't affect them as they will end in downtown Tampa. The only I-4 interchanges I'm aware of that might need rebuilding are I-4 at 559 and the eastern Polk County Parkway interchange.  I know that the  CSX bridge will be an issue in Lakeland as well. All other bridges from my understanding will be compatible with future rail alignments. That is why I say AAF won't have a big issue expanding to Tampa. FDOT is pretty much fixing the problem areas before AAF will build.

It won't affect AAF, but it might have a major impact on the potential for local/regional rail transit in Tampa Bay...of course, I'm far from convinced that FDOT has any real interest in seeing that come to fruition.

If FDOT didn't have any real interest in seeing a transit line along I-275 to the airport, then they wouldn't be interested in buying land for a transit center in the west shore area of Tampa adjacent to I-275:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/plans-for-westshore-multimodal-transit-center-back-on-the-table/2252936

[thelakelander]

^That's a project tufsu1 knows a lot about!

[Ocklawaha]

Like so many of FDOT'S projects, 'multi-modal' means: cars, taxi's, BRT and regular buses as well as pogo sticks. R-A-I-L is a four letter word and the heart of much of this tripe throughout the nation comes from none other then CUTR at USF in Tampa which gets its grants and life blood from a dedicated highway/oil industry dominated by anti-rail 'think tanks.' Some of the white papers they have issued over the years read like a dogeared copy of DC comics; 'Buses have a greater passenger capacity then rail' was a classic line that made the press. Funny part is nobody bothered to explain that the buses would have to arrive and depart every few seconds and nobody could figure out how you'd get those passengers on or off.

So Florida? Tampa? Jacksonville? How long can you remain in the dark ages?

[tufsu1]

If FDOT didn't have any real interest in seeing a transit line along I-275 to the airport, then they wouldn't be interested in buying land for a transit center in the west shore area of Tampa adjacent to I-275:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/plans-for-westshore-multimodal-transit-center-back-on-the-table/2252936

My comment was directed at rail transit specifically.  The multimodal center would be used (at least initially) as a connection between regional express bus (BRT) and a possible extension of the airport's people mover.

[Brian_Tampa]

If FDOT didn't have any real interest in seeing a transit line along I-275 to the airport, then they wouldn't be interested in buying land for a transit center in the west shore area of Tampa adjacent to I-275:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/plans-for-westshore-multimodal-transit-center-back-on-the-table/2252936

My comment was directed at rail transit specifically.  The multimodal center would be used (at least initially) as a connection between regional express bus (BRT) and a possible extension of the airport's people mover.

Latest news today, FDOT has closed on the property for the new intermodal station recently. $45M is a rather large amount to spend on just the land for a bus and people mover terminal.  It's apparent that FDOT believes that rail transit of some sort is in the future for this site. With the recent decision by CSX to be open to selling their Tampa Bay area freight lines to St Pete and Brooksville from Tampa, we are taking baby steps here on the path to commuter rail.

http://www.tbo.com/news/transportation/fdot-completes-purchase-of-hotel-property-for-future-westshore-transportation-center-20160105/

[tufsu1]

^ how much do you think the people mover will cost?  Try a couple hundred million dollars to extend it less than 3 miles.  Given that, $45 million for the land seems reasonable.  Its also not a bad deal if regional transit doesn't happen and FDOT eventually unloads the site for the same or more money.

As Lakelander noted, I am VERY familiar with the full history of the Westshore Multimodal Center...as well as the one that was proposed for downtown Tampa (FDOT bought that land too) and one proposed in the Gateway area of Pinellas County.

[Illurion]

I enjoy reading MetroJax,   and all its various forums,   ie: local history, politics, etc.

I have never actually posted to it before now though.

I decided to actually login and post,  because i am interested in the expansion of rail service,   both locally in Jax,  and statewide also,  and because i would like to thank all of you for "spreading around" your knowledge.

I am not all that knowledgeable about the finances,  and the operations of the various Railroads.

But i am interested in Railroads due to my family history.

I am a member of a clan of old-line Florida families that have been here since the time of the Spanish.

Practically all of my extended ancestors worked for the various Railroads here in Florida,  including my Grandfather, great-Grandfather, and almost all Uncles....

My GrandFather died in the 70's,  and he had worked for what is now called CSX.    Over time,  it's name had changed so many times that he used to enjoy confusing me with their names:    Seaboard Airline, Seaboard Coastline, Atlantic Coastline,  etc.

I have railroad hats and lanterns all over my house.

At family get-togethers,  all of them used to make fun of me...   They called me the "BABY TRAIN CONDUCTOR"...

You see,   i never worked for a REAL railroad as far as THEY were concerned,    NO,   i was a lowly    "MONORAIL PILOT"   for Walt Disney World back in the 1970's.

I loved driving rails for Disney.

I really wish that the JTA would somehow make a deal with Disney to use Disney Monorails in in Jax.    They are so efficient,  and clean,  and quiet.

I have lost hope that any of this will happen in my lifetime though.

My Grandfather, my Father, and all my Uncles are long dead,  and i now have congestive heart failure.

But i still have hope,  and joke with my Grandson that some day either he,  or his Son will get to be a "BABY-TRAIN-CONDUCTOR"  like i did.

In any case,  thank you all for your information.