David Beckham’s $220 Million Miami Stadium

[Adam White]

The problem is the location. People get this crazy idea that when Latin Americans get to the States they bring their attendance habits with them.

They don't.

Instead, they logically adopt American habits and merge them into their pre-exisiting expectations. South Florida people are *not* going to walk from those distant parking locations over to that stadium. They just aren't going to do it; too scared (like so many in Jax freaked out about multiple locations in and around downtown) and, in addition, too acculturated to American expectations.

So, you're saying absolutely no one is going to walk to the stadium (latinos or otherwise)?

[ProjectMaximus]

I'm sure this obviously has no impact to the Miami stadium deal, but since I'm the resident rugby fanboy I'll mention that preliminary discussions for a professional rugby sevens league in the US have received with MLS buy-in, as any potential partnership would utilize many of the MLS stadiums around the country. It's still a very longshot and risky proposition, but if there ever were a chance to see pro rugby in the US in the next twenty years it will be with Sevens (imo easily the most viewable and mainstream accessible version) and come out of any momentum generated from next year's Olympics. Now we just need the USA to make a cinderella run to the gold medal.

[RattlerGator]

So, you're saying absolutely no one is going to walk to the stadium (latinos or otherwise)?

Clearly that's not what I'm saying. What I *am* saying is there will likely not be enough (Latinos or otherwise) walkers through a section of town many think sketchy to make that stadium venture successful.

[Tacachale]

All of that assumes the city lets them build the stadium withou parking to begin with. I'm pretty skeptical.

[Adam White]

So, you're saying absolutely no one is going to walk to the stadium (latinos or otherwise)?

Clearly that's not what I'm saying. What I *am* saying is there will likely not be enough (Latinos or otherwise) walkers through a section of town many think sketchy to make that stadium venture successful.

It seems to be part of a larger project. So although it may suffer at first, I wouldn't be surprised if people do take public transport to get to it. Americans are no different from anyone else, in that respect. My only real concern is they claim there are 7000 spaces in the area - is this true and how useable are these spaces (like, are they scattered about where people will have to hunt and will they be used up by other people visiting for other, non-soccer, reasons)?

[RattlerGator]

[A]lthough it may suffer at first, I wouldn't be surprised if people do take public transport to get to it. Americans are no different from anyone else, in that respect.

Yes, Adam, yes we are. Very different in that respect, especially in the Sun Belt.

[Adam White]

[A]lthough it may suffer at first, I wouldn't be surprised if people do take public transport to get to it. Americans are no different from anyone else, in that respect.

Yes, Adam, yes we are. Very different in that respect, especially in the Sun Belt.

I disagree. It's down to incentives. People use MARTA in Atlanta, which is easily as hot (or hotter) than Miami in the summer. People will use public transport when the benefits or positives outweigh the percieved negatives. This idea that Americans are somehow different than people all over the rest of the world is crazy.

Read Freakonomics sometime.

[Tacachale]

I think people would walk to it. I don't believe that 19,000 people (MLS average attendance) will walk to it 17+ times a year. But then I have a hard time imagining the city letting them build this stadium with no parking.

I also don't know where the idea that Hispanics don't follow MLS comes from. It's usually reported that 34% of MLS's audience is Hispanic, which is double the general Hispanic population, and much higher than any other North American sports league. However, it *is* true that teams can't just count on the Hispanic audience carrying them. MLS has no serious TV audience and succeeds through people attending the games. The power demographic for them is young male professionals, largely white, who buy tickets. That group of fans love their soccer-specific stadiums in urban areas. Urban SLS's are credited with driving MLS's growth, which is presumably why MLS is so insistent on Beckham finding an urban stadium in Miami, despite the fact that the city couldn't be less supportive.

But the limitations of soccer-specific stadiums are coming to light. The most successful MLS team is the Seattle Sounders, who play in the Seahawks football stadium and draw more 40,000+ fans per game - more than double the league average. In the minor leagues, Indianapolis plays on a college campus, Jacksonville plays at the baseball field, and Minnesota plays way out in the suburbs, and they all draw 8,000+ per game. Clearly the stadiums aren't setting them back. Some other MLS teams would likely see higher attendances like Seattle, but they're limited by the size of their soccer stadiums. Orlando is probably going to face this problem: in the Citrus Bowl they average 32,000 fans a game, but they're building a soccer stadium nearby that will only hold 25,000.

As I said before, I think MLS and Beckham have gotten each other into a corner on this Miami deal. Beckham knows MLS won't give him a team without a soccer-specific stadium in urban Miami, and MLS knows Beckham is the only one who'd put that kind of money into such an onerous project. Meanwhile, they're missing other opportunities (and cities) that would be surefire.

[FlaBoy]

I still do not understand why they need a brand new soccer stadium in Orlando when they literally have a brand new lower bowl of the Citrus Bowl that the city and county spent $210 million on and especially when their attendance is 32,000 a game. Just put some cool tarps on the upper deck and call it a day.

[Adam White]

I still do not understand why they need a brand new soccer stadium in Orlando when they literally have a brand new lower bowl of the Citrus Bowl that the city and county spent $210 million on and especially when their attendance is 32,000 a game. Just put some cool tarps on the upper deck and call it a day.

Because MLS requires new franchises to build a soccer-specific stadium.

[I-10east]

^^^+100.

The Citrus Bowl is at around 60,000, and a typical MLS stadium is around 20,000. Quite a differing capacity contrast.

[Adam White]

^^^+100.

The Citrus Bowl is at around 60,000, and a typical MLS stadium is around 20,000. Quite a differing capacity contrast.

I think a big part of the push for soccer-specific stadiums is that it gives a better gameday experience to the fans. Not only will it have fewer empty seats, but the stands tend to be closer to the field. In a football stadium, you'd be sitting in a mostly-empty stadium with more grass between you and the players. And the smaller size means a better atmosphere (songs, noise, etc).

Apparently MLS feels part of its more recent success can be attributed to soccer-specific stadiums. Although I am not 100% certain that building one is a strict requirement of all new franchisees, I am sure it helps their bid.

[FlaBoy]

The lower bowl in the Citrus Bowl is only 34,000 which is near what they are drawing per game.

[Adam White]

The lower bowl in the Citrus Bowl is only 34,000 which is near what they are drawing per game.

Who is drawing 34k per game?

That would still leave a vast amount of the stadium empty. The atmosphere would really suffer. I'm not saying a) a soccer franchise in Miami is a good idea or b) that this stadium is a good idea - but I personally wouldn't want to go to a soccer match in a half-full football stadium.

[tufsu1]

Who is drawing 34k per game?

That would still leave a vast amount of the stadium empty. The atmosphere would really suffer. I'm not saying a) a soccer franchise in Miami is a good idea or b) that this stadium is a good idea - but I personally wouldn't want to go to a soccer match in a half-full football stadium.

Have you watched an Orlando City game?  The atmosphere is hardly suffering.