Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon

Started by spuwho, August 22, 2014, 09:37:07 PM

spuwho

Different countries. Different politics. Different styles.

China sees Australia as a local but weaker player in the argument.

But the US style of telegraphing, blustering, and uncontrolled media hyping of the smallest of moves clearly rankles them.

That Poseidon that carried a CNN reporter for the ride significantly upset the Chinese leadership. To them, making a media event out of a freedom of navigation issue was a provocation and attempt to embarrass them.

Tacachale

Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

BridgeTroll

http://thediplomat.com/2016/02/china-rejects-latest-us-fonop-in-the-south-china-sea/

QuoteChina Rejects Latest US FONOP in the South China Sea
The second U.S. FONOP had a different legal rationale than the first — and sparked a different Chinese response.

By Shannon Tiezzi February 02, 2016

As The Diplomat previously reported, the United States has conducted a second freedom of navigation operation (FONOP) within 12 nautical miles of a disputed island in the South China Sea. On January 30, the USS Curtis Wilbur, a guided-missile destroyer, sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the Paracels, which is controlled by China but also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan. This particular FONOP was designed to assert the right of innocent passage through territorial waters without having to give advance notice (something both China and Vietnam demand when foreign vessels transit through territorial waters in the Paracels.

China's Foreign Ministry responded sternly to the FONOP, saying that "the U.S. navy vessel violated the relevant Chinese law and entered China's territorial sea without authorization." As spokesperson Hua Chunying explained, "According to the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone, foreign ships for military purposes shall be subject to approval by the Government of the People's Republic of China for entering the territorial sea of the People's Republic of China."

It's precisely this law requiring prior approval, even for innocent passage, that the U.S. FONOP was designed to counter.  As U.S. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter said in a statement:

This operation challenged attempts by the three claimants, China, Taiwan and Vietnam, to restrict navigation rights and freedoms around the features they claim by policies that require prior permission or notification of transit within territorial seas. The excessive claims regarding Triton Island are inconsistent with international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention.

On Monday, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang rejected that explanation, claiming that the "so-called" FONOP "is conducted in disregard of sovereign security and maritime rights and interests of coastal states, causing severe damage to regional peace and stability."

"It is, in essence, the pursuit of maritime hegemony by the U.S. under the cloak of 'freedom of navigation,'" Lu added, calling "the flexing of military muscles and creating of tension by the U.S. under the pretext of the freedom of navigation is the biggest cause of militarization in the South China Sea."

Lu also said that Chinese troops, "naval ships and airplanes made an immediate response" to the Curtis Wilbur's presence. However, a Pentagon spokesperson said that no Chinese naval vessels had escorted the Curtis Wilbur during the mission, unlike during the USS Lassen's FONOP near Subi Reef last October.

Vietnam, meanwhile, responded by saying that it respects the right to innocent passage through its territorial waters in accordance with international law. Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh also reiterated Vietnam's "indisputable sovereignty over Hoang Sa [Paracel] as well as Truong Sa [Spratly] archipelagoes."

Though the USS Lassen's patrol near Subi Reef in October and the USS Curtis Wilbur's transit near Triton Island are both categorized as FONOPs, the legal rationale behind each was quite different. The USS Lassen passed within 12 nautical miles of Subi Reef, which has been artificially enlarged by China, to demonstrate the United States' belief that the feature is still legally considered a low-tide elevation, not an island.

Accordingly, China's official response was angry but also intentionally vague – China, in effect, scolded the United States from breaching the 12 nautical mile zone around Subi without explicitly claiming that Subi is, in fact, entitled to a territorial sea (see Graham Webster's detailed parsing of the language that was used).

By contrast, the FONOP around Triton is more clear-cut – China does explicitly claim a territorial sea around the Paracels. The U.S. FONOP in the area was designed to counter two aspects of China (and Vietnam's) claims: the requirement for foreign warships to seek prior authorization before transiting near the feature, and the way territorial baselines are drawn around the Paracels. As James Kraska of the Naval War College explained to USNI, "China has established unlawful straight baselines around all the [Paracel] islands — which is illegal."

This FONOP is more straightforward because it's clear precisely what is being claimed – and that the United States rejects those claims as "excessive" and "inconsistent with international law." It's potentially more destabilizing for the same reason – unlike at Subi Reef, China has clearly claimed a territorial sea around the Paracels, and thus could react more strongly to a perceived U.S. incursion (although as of yet, there's no indication China will up the ante).

The transit by the USS Curtis Wilbur will not be the end of U.S. FONOPs in the region. Admiral Harry B. Harris, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, recently told a Washington, D.C. audience that "as we continue down the path of freedom of navigations, you will see more of them, and you will see them increasing in complexity and scope in areas of challenge."
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Tacachale

Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

spuwho

Adm. Harris has been requesting meets with the PLAN for years to discuss FONOP's and engagement protocols.

I see this as forcing their hand. In other words, "if you would engage us in protocols, then we wouldnt need to have diplomatic rows constantly"

spuwho


BridgeTroll

In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

spuwho

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 17, 2016, 10:56:52 AM
This was entirely predictable...

They have had planes fly into Wood Island (Xinshi) in the Paracels often, but this is the first time they have  established a SAM system.

The usual postering.

China says its a normal defensive activity and that the press are having a slow day. Red China has occupied Wood Island continuously since 1949.

Japan expresses outrage and calls it an express provocation.

Taiwan calls for calm and tells everyone to chill out.

If China puts SAM's on Fiery Reef, that will bring the house down probably.

The Hague is about to rule on the Phillippines arbitration case with China.  You can pretty much expect a noisy response from China, odd since they have ignored the hearings since the start.

BridgeTroll

Quote from: spuwho on February 17, 2016, 02:46:06 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 17, 2016, 10:56:52 AM
This was entirely predictable...

They have had planes fly into Wood Island (Xinshi) in the Paracels often, but this is the first time they have  established a SAM system.

The usual postering.

China says its a normal defensive activity and that the press are having a slow day. Red China has occupied Wood Island continuously since 1949.

Japan expresses outrage and calls it an express provocation.

Taiwan calls for calm and tells everyone to chill out.

If China puts SAM's on Fiery Reef, that will bring the house down probably.

The Hague is about to rule on the Phillippines arbitration case with China.  You can pretty much expect a noisy response from China, odd since they have ignored the hearings since the start.

In fairness... this was in fact an island all along.  This was not part of the destruction of fishing reefs closer to the Philippines than China.  It certainly is not a good sign that China is now adding surface to air missiles to the area... because once they militarize all of their occupations... they are there to stay.  They will control the worlds busiest piece of ocean is Asia...  As you can see from the map below the differences between the locations of the Paracel Islands and the reefs of the Spratlys...

In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

spuwho

The Chinese are now reporting that they have had SAM's at Xinshi Island for over 20 years. Hence their surprise at the press "outrage".

spuwho

Quote from: spuwho on February 17, 2016, 08:09:50 PM
The Chinese are now reporting that they have had SAM's at Xinshi Island for over 20 years. Hence their surprise at the press "outrage".

Chess game continues.

Per Reuters:

Admiral Harris told a Congressional hearing yesterday that US Navy FONOPS will increase in frequency and complexity in the near future.

BridgeTroll

Just to be clear that China is not a special case... The USN performs FONOPS 365 days a year all over the globe.  This area (SCS) has notoriety because China is claiming that we do not or no longer have freedom to navigate these waters.  Another rather famous example of this is the "Line of Death" Gaddaffi claimed by drawing a line across the Gulf of Sidra and claiming it as sovereign Libyan waters.  the USN most certainly did not stop sailing or flying through these waters because of some declaration or claim.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Gunnar

Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 24, 2016, 12:50:19 PMAnother rather famous example of this is the "Line of Death" Gaddaffi claimed by drawing a line across the Gulf of Sidra and claiming it as sovereign Libyan waters.  the USN most certainly did not stop sailing or flying through these waters because of some declaration or claim.

Just that China isn't Libya - it's a lot easier to ignore a line drawn in the sand by a scrawny kid.
I want to live in a society where people can voice unpopular opinions because I know that as a result of that, a society grows and matures..." — Hugh Hefner

Tacachale

^Yes, but the Chinese aren't nearly so blinkered and crazy as Qaddafi.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

finehoe

China gearing up for East Asia dominance: U.S. commander

China is "changing the operational landscape" in the South China Sea by deploying missiles and radar as part of an effort to militarily dominate East Asia, a senior U.S. military official said on Tuesday.

China is "clearly militarizing the South China (Sea)," said Admiral Harry Harris, head of the U.S. Pacific Command, adding: "You'd have to believe in a flat Earth to think otherwise."

Harris said he believed China's deployment of surface-to-air missiles on Woody Island in the South China Sea's Paracel chain, new radars on Cuarteron Reef in the Spratlys and its building of airstrips were "actions that are changing in my opinion the operational landscape in the South China Sea."

Soon after he spoke, U.S. government sources confirmed that China recently deployed fighter jets to Woody Island. It was not the first time Beijing sent jets there but it raised new questions about its intentions.

U.S. Navy Captain Darryn James, spokesman for U.S. Pacific Command, said China's repeated deployment of advanced fighter aircraft to Woody Island continued a disturbing trend.

"These destabilizing actions are inconsistent with the commitment by China and all claimants to exercise restraint from actions that could escalate disputes," he said. "That's why we've called for all claimants to stop land reclamation, stop construction and stop militarization in the South China Sea."



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-usa-missiles-idUSKCN0VX04O