Next phase for Skyway will cost +$50 million — and decision will be made soon

[thelakelander]

An article I'm quoted in about the Skyway's future.

Doing something to prepare the Skyway people mover for its next phase of life will cost at least $64 million, according to preliminary estimates by the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, and could be as much as $85 million.

A recently completed $349,000 study by engineering firm Lea+Elliott came up with four options for the oft-maligned monorail, ranging from tearing it down to buying new cars. To figure out what comes next, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority in the process of launching a committee to pick the best option.

my comments:

Some of those who have long been supporters of mass transit in Jacksonville are pushing for the system to be kept and modified, such as Ennis Davis, an urban planner with Ghyabi & Associates.

"You would salvage what's already in place," Davis said. "People see the Skyway as a negative, but it's actually a positive."
That proposal would have the monorail removed and the system turned into light rail, meaning maintenance would be more cost effective and parts easier to access.

The city could then connect a fixed trolley system with the Skyway that would travel to surrounding neighborhoods.
"Downtown would then be in the middle of several vibrant districts," Davis said. "You could live in Riverside and be a tram stop from the Fresh Market in Brooklyn. You could live in 11E Downtown and be two or three stops from San Marco Square. That's urban living."
Making a choice

On paper, it seems that the option to maintain the Skyway and invest in new vehicles is the clearly preferred option. On the literal piece of paper the JTA provided to the Business Journal, outlining the costs and details of the options, the plan has the most advantages and fewest disadvantages.

But Thoburn maintains the JTA doesn't favor any option: Should the committee and advisory group recommend that Skyway is torn down, it's something the board will listen to. The board of directors will make the final decision.

"When the JTA board makes the decision," he said, "they're going to really look at why the advisory group felt that way."
For what should be determined, Davis said it comes down to what kind of Downtown Jacksonville wants to have.

"It comes down to what the goals for the future of Jacksonville's urban core and Downtown are," he said. "If you want an exciting place that's walkable, fixed transit has to play a role. If you don't really care and you're find with Downtown looking like Baymeadows Boulevard or the Town Center, then put in buses and parking lots and that's what you get."

Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/09/15/next-phase-for-skyway-will-cost-more-than-50.html

[thelakelander]

I think I may have confused her during out phone conversation. I basically presented an argument for exploring modification with new (commonly used) vehicles that utilize existing elevated infrastructure in downtown, while also having the ability to effectively operate at-grade. This provides the city with the option of having a single fixed mode in the downtown core, that can also be expanded to surrounding neighborhoods for a cheaper long term cost.

On the second question, I was asked how to choose what option to select? IMO, it all depends on what type of downtown Jacksonville wants. If you want a vibrant pedestrian scale one with pedestrian friendly infill, the Skyway/fixed transit will play an important role. If you don't really care, replace it with buses, keep building parking lots and accept the fact that we'll have one of the deadest downtowns in the country for the foreseeable future.

[Kerry]

I am moving to downtown on Oct 1st with my 2 teenage sons.  I picked downtown specifically because they can be mobile without me having to buy them cars.  Losing the Skyway would be a huge step backwards and would have me reconsidering living in Jax period.

[jcjohnpaint]

I drive by the cars every day too and from work.  The trains seem to be pretty filled most times I see them.  People are riding them. 

[Sentient]

I think I may have confused her during out phone conversation. I basically presented an argument for exploring modification with new (commonly used) vehicles that utilize existing elevated infrastructure in downtown, while also having the ability to effectively operate at-grade. This provides the city with the option of having a single fixed mode in the downtown core, that can also be expanded to surrounding neighborhoods for a cheaper long term cost.

On the second question, I was asked how to choose what option to select? IMO, it all depends on what type of downtown Jacksonville wants. If you want a vibrant pedestrian scale one with pedestrian friendly infill, the Skyway/fixed transit will play an important role. If you don't really care, replace it with buses, keep building parking lots and accept the fact that we'll have one of the deadest downtowns in the country for the foreseeable future.

Hear hear!  It's time to give up the dream of a vibrant downtown and embrace a kick ass suburban landscape of linked communities.  Parking a plenty for everyone and density at the focal points of each neighborhood.  It works in other places and could work in Jax.  And save hundreds of millions in misplaced downtown visioning and development.  downtown can be what it wants to be, a prison, a coffee plant and the seat of government and courts.

You are what you are.

[exnewsman]

I drive by the cars every day too and from work.  The trains seem to be pretty filled most times I see them.  People are riding them. 

You're correct. Recent ridership data has the Skyway setting a new record this year at more than 1.3 million trips. Its been averaging around 112K a month. Considering how few people actually live downtown that's a pretty good number. One Spark helps for a few days, as does Art Walk 1x/month, but its really the regular ridership increase that has made the difference.

I hope this new committee will make the right choice and invest in the Skyway and the future of Downtown.

[fsujax]

I hope this new committee understands the importance of a good mass transit system and the positive impact it can have on downtown.

[The_Choose_1]

I drive by the cars every day too and from work.  The trains seem to be pretty filled most times I see them.  People are riding them. 

You're correct. Recent ridership data has the Skyway setting a new record this year at more than 1.3 million trips. Its been averaging around 112K a month. Considering how few people actually live downtown that's a pretty good number. One Spark helps for a few days, as does Art Walk 1x/month, but its really the regular ridership increase that has made the difference.

I hope this new committee will make the right choice and invest in the Skyway and the future of Downtown.

Don't forget the Skyway is FREE.

[thelakelander]

Miami's Metromover is free as well.

[ProjectMaximus]

I highly doubt they recommend to demolish. The decision will be whether to upgrade or to rebuild for a different mode. I'm all for converting to light rail. Lake, any reason you now think it can indeed be modified when previously you were waiting to hear/learn more?

[thelakelander]

^I doubt LRVs will work. Reading the article, I think the writer got confused about the modes. During our conversation, I mentioned what other cities had done with LRT, streetcars, and other forms of fixed transit, integrated with supportive land use policies. I don't remember specifying a certain type of fixed transit for a Skyway retrofit outside of saying it would be ideal to have something that could utilize the existing infrastructure and still have the ability to operate at-grade. With that in mind, the vehicles would certainly have to be lighter than heavy rail vehicles, but I don't have the necessary info to claim that a LRT conversion is feasible.

[Steve]

Seems like it would...but might need either a large, low grade ramp to work or something to assist it getting that high, right?

[ProjectMaximus]

^I doubt LRVs will work. Reading the article, I think the writer got confused about the modes. During our conversation, I mentioned what other cities had done with LRT, streetcars, and other forms of fixed transit, integrated with supportive land use policies. I don't remember specifying a certain type of fixed transit for a Skyway retrofit outside of saying it would be ideal to have something that could utilize the existing infrastructure and still have the ability to operate at-grade. With that in mind, the vehicles would certainly have to be lighter than heavy rail vehicles, but I don't have the necessary info to claim that a LRT conversion is feasible.

Oh now I get what you meant by the writer being confused. Yeah, I'm still hoping there's a way to retrofit the skyway so it's all one system in the future.

[thelakelander]

Seems like it would...but might need either a large, low grade ramp to work or something to assist it getting that high, right?

If extended, it would need ramps but there's more than enough space to drop to grade (out of site) in Brooklyn and San Marco. Probably not so easy in the heart of downtown, on a street like Bay.

[Charles Hunter]

I hope they go with conversion.

What!? A reporter confused over the facts? That never happens!  (Where is the sarcasm font?)