Seven Decisions That Killed Downtown

[fieldafm]

I left this note out of the article. Downtown's largest private sector employers in 1985:

Downtown's Largest Private Employers in 1985

3,763 - Southern Bell
3,438 - Blue Cross Blue Shield
3,401 - Seaboard Coastline Railroad
3,273 - Prudential
2,644 - Barnett Bank
2,500 - Jacksonville Shipyards, Inc.
1,952 - Florida National Bank
1,780 - Baptist Medical Center
1,384 - Atlantic National Bank
1,310 - Independent Life

Source: Jax Biz Journal 1986 Book of Lists

To expand, Downtown Vision's latest State of Downtown Report included the following numbers on regional employment:
3,600 - CSX **
2,400 - Black Knight Financial Services **
2,239 - Everbank **
1,000 - Stein Mart **
700 - Interline Brands
500 -  Fidelity National Financial **
450 - Suddath Relocation Systems
420 - Haskell
400 -  Fidelity National Information Services **


Note the ** represents that not all of these jobs are located in downtown as these employers also have seconday offices outside of the urban core. This isn't an apples to apples comparison as the DVI report doesn't list downtown-specific jobs. For instance, Prudential is not included on the list (which was supplied from the Chamber) as Prudential isn't headquarted in Jax and the DVI/Chamber list focused on regional HQs.  Still, it's clear to see that there are certainly far less people downtown from 8-5 then there were 30 years ago.

When you start to compare those numbers, you'll really appreciate why having 1,000 employees move downtown from Citizens Insurance and having 120 jobs being created downtown from Macquarie Group is such a big deal... particularly to the small businesses (daytime restaurants, service-related retail, etc... and nightime restaurants, bars, etc) that rely on the foot traffic created from this daytime population of workers.

[Tacachale]

I left this note out of the article. Downtown's largest private sector employers in 1985:

Downtown's Largest Private Employers in 1985

3,763 - Southern Bell
3,438 - Blue Cross Blue Shield
3,401 - Seaboard Coastline Railroad
3,273 - Prudential
2,644 - Barnett Bank
2,500 - Jacksonville Shipyards, Inc.
1,952 - Florida National Bank
1,780 - Baptist Medical Center
1,384 - Atlantic National Bank
1,310 - Independent Life

Source: Jax Biz Journal 1986 Book of Lists

To expand, Downtown Vision's latest State of Downtown Report included the following numbers on regional employment:
3,600 - CSX **
2,400 - Black Knight Financial Services **
2,239 - Everbank **
1,000 - Stein Mart **
700 - Interline Brands
500 -  Fidelity National Financial **
450 - Suddath Relocation Systems
420 - Haskell
400 -  Fidelity National Information Services **


Note the ** represents that not all of these jobs are located in downtown as these employers also have seconday offices outside of the urban core. This isn't an apples to apples comparison as the DVI report doesn't list downtown-specific jobs. For instance, Prudential is not included on the list (which was supplied from the Chamber) as Prudential isn't headquarted in Jax and the DVI/Chamber list focused on regional HQs.  Still, it's clear to see that there are certainly far less people downtown from 8-5 then there were 30 years ago.

When you start to compare those numbers, you'll really appreciate why having 1,000 employees move downtown from Citizens Insurance and having 120 jobs being created downtown from Macquarie Group is such a big deal... particularly to the small businesses (daytime restaurants, service-related retail, etc... and nightime restaurants, bars, etc) that rely on the foot traffic created from this daytime population of workers.

And plus, several of those are in Brooklyn, not the historical city core. That wasn't the case 30 years ago.

[thelakelander]

The 1985 list would be a lot larger but I cut the limit off at 1,000 employees. There were several Northbank and Southbank companies like Gulf Life that employed in the 800 to 500 range.

[jaxlongtimer]

The employer list looks suspect to me in terms of completeness.

Blue Cross (Florida Blue today) is listed in the older list but not the new one even though they are in the same spot today on Riverside Avenue.  Where is Aetna, Prudential and Baptist Medical Center (the last two on the old list but not the new)?  If the second, fourth and eighth largest employers in 1985 can be overlooked, how many others might there be.  Also, wouldn't downtown include government employers (City, State, Federal, FSCJ, etc.), JEA, JTA, School Board and non-profits (DuPont center, museums, etc.)?  How about the cumulative effect of all the professional firms (lawyers, CPA's, insurance agencies, etc.)?  Where are the Hyatt and Omni and all the Southbank hotels?  The Times Union?  Federal Reserve Bank?  Do the Jaguars count ?  If 400 employees is the current threshold, I would think some of these would make the list today, if not in yesteryear.

I sure hope City leaders aren't making decisions on this data.  I won't argue their hasn't been a change in downtown but this is not a proper picture of that change.  I also think the Southbank is far more enriched today than than in 1985 and should really be a different story from the Northbank in many respects.  When M.D. Anderson builds, the Southbank will go to another level again.  Expect more hotels and restaurants to follow that facility (see Mayo's impact).

[thelakelander]

I only pulled 1986 numbers for private sector businesses for this particular article. I ended up not using them in the story because I could not find an apples to apples 2015 comparison. The 1986 list also included public sector numbers.

[fieldafm]

The employer list looks suspect to me in terms of completeness.

Blue Cross (Florida Blue today) is listed in the older list but not the new one even though they are in the same spot today on Riverside Avenue.  Where is Aetna, Prudential and Baptist Medical Center (the last two on the old list but not the new)?  If the second, fourth and eighth largest employers in 1985 can be overlooked, how many others might there be.  Also, wouldn't downtown include government employers (City, State, Federal, FSCJ, etc.), JEA, JTA, School Board and non-profits (DuPont center, museums, etc.)?  How about the cumulative effect of all the professional firms (lawyers, CPA's, insurance agencies, etc.)?  Where are the Hyatt and Omni and all the Southbank hotels?  The Times Union?  Federal Reserve Bank?  Do the Jaguars count ?  If 400 employees is the current threshold, I would think some of these would make the list today, if not in yesteryear.

I sure hope City leaders aren't making decisions on this data.  I won't argue their hasn't been a change in downtown but this is not a proper picture of that change.  I also think the Southbank is far more enriched today than than in 1985 and should really be a different story from the Northbank in many respects.  When M.D. Anderson builds, the Southbank will go to another level again.  Expect more hotels and restaurants to follow that facility (see Mayo's impact).

It's not an apples to apples comparison as both lists looked at different metrics. But, any way you slice it... there are far less workers downtown now then there were then.

FYI, Florida Blue is on the Southside (with around 6k employees on a sprawling campus that I am currently staring at from my office window)... the Blue Cross Building in Brooklyn is full of either Fidelity employees, or employees of First Coast Service Options (a business unit Blue sold many years ago). Places like the Federal Reserve and the Times Union buildings are also mostly empty compared to years past.

That said, maybe I shouldn't have used the list as its comparing a bag of green apples with a bag of red apples mixed with tangerines (and that's totally fair for you to point out)... but you can still draw pretty accurate conclusions based on the incomplete/not totally 100% compatible lists.

[thelakelander]

Will MD Anderson's numbers be included in the Southbank? The proposed site is on the other side of I-95.

[I-10east]

I bet many people crossing over the train tracks on the Northbank Riverwalk to Riverside have no idea that they left downtown. I have no problem with including Riverside businesses with 'downtowns'; It's very petty at that point. A viaduct that crosses a couple of railroad tracks isn't a new continent.

[Wacca Pilatka]

I bet many people crossing over the train tracks on the Northbank Riverwalk to Riverside have no idea that they left downtown. I have no problem with including Riverside businesses with 'downtowns'; It's very petty at that point. A viaduct that crosses a couple of railroad tracks isn't a new continent.

Well, no...but I think the point here is how much employment in the Northbank core has declined over the years and how these statistics obscure that fact.

The DVI report shows 49,000 employees downtown, but that's a broader definition than in the 1980s when the Godbold administration touted the 50,000-60,000 people who worked downtown (meaning just on the Northbank).

[iMarvin]

I bet many people crossing over the train tracks on the Northbank Riverwalk to Riverside have no idea that they left downtown. I have no problem with including Riverside businesses with 'downtowns'; It's very petty at that point. A viaduct that crosses a couple of railroad tracks isn't a new continent.

I think it's pretty similar to how Brickell and Downtown Miami are.