New flight to LGA

[ProjectMaximus]

on American. I know Yahoo Travel isn't a terribly cutthroat medium for journalism, but I found it interesting that this route was included in a national article amongst flights between far more exotic and/or bigger cities. I guess Jax-NYC is getting popular (as evident by the new service as well)

Jacksonville from New York City via American

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Photo: Jacksonville, Florida via Shutterstock

December 17 is set to be a big day of exciting new routes for American. Though not as ground-breaking as the previously mentioned Los Angeles-to-Sydney route, American is also scheduled to launch a New York (LaGuardia)-to-Jacksonville route on that same day—perfect timing for holiday travel.

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/these-11-new-airline-routes-will-make-flying-125789438362.html

[spuwho]

Deutsche, BAC, JPMC, Fidelity Investments and now Macquarrie.

Those are 5 pretty good reasons supporting JAX/LGA flights.

[ben says]

This is actually huge news in my world.... anything to stop taking DL somewhere. JAX is considered a 'hub captive' to DL flights, and absent JB to JFK and UA to EWR we really don't have a non-DL option to the greater NY area.

I fly to NYC at least 6 times a year and AA will absolutely get my business.

[ProjectMaximus]

^Out of curiosity, why is that? Is DL a much worse airline experience than AA? (My impression is worse, but not by much)
And what was the problem with having JB and UA as options? I've used all three to fly into NYC and never thought one was noticeably more convenient than another. And from my experience DL always price matched JB so they were already at the LCC's mercy in that regard.

[Gators312]

^Out of curiosity, why is that? Is DL a much worse airline experience than AA? (My impression is worse, but not by much)
And what was the problem with having JB and UA as options? I've used all three to fly into NYC and never thought one was noticeably more convenient than another. And from my experience DL always price matched JB so they were already at the LCC's mercy in that regard.

On JAX-LGA AA won't have a superior hard product, but AA's FF program is better than Sky Pesos which Delta continues to devalue.

Ben travels much more than I do, so I too am curious what he has to say on the subject.

[PeeJayEss]

There are a couple United flights to EWR, and Jet Blue also goes direct to JFK. Delta has the most flights though, so they are often the cheapest. LGA is just hard to get anywhere from unless you are driving. And then it is hard to get anywhere anyway. And the LGA rental car setup is the worst I've ever experienced.

[simms3]

Yea Ben, why no Delta?  As a legacy thing I kept my rewards/points with Delta when I moved to SFO, which is a United and the Virgin hub, but I prefer DL to UA, easily (and I do have a lot of experience with UA now here in SF).  I understand AA has newer planes on average?  But being in Jax, I would think planes outa Jax are typically smaller, older, and not of the same quality of style as planes out of an SFO or similar airport.  For instance, my flights to NYC (and I don't have an LGA option, only Newark or JFK, choosing the latter to get up to CT) are 25+% business class, and the business class is 100% flatbed on all flights.  Of course, larger planes.  Pretty sure in Jax there are very few if any wide bodies or large planes with large business classes flying anywhere, right?

Peejay...LGA is hard to get anywhere from?  Where are you going when you get to NYC?  I find LGA to be the most convenient, but it doesn't handle W Coast flights so much.  I get put into JFK Terminal 4 (the best, largest, and newest terminal at JFK...with 2 Shakeshacks even tho Shakeshack is vastly inferior to Super Duper where I live I just gotta throw that out there since it resonates with E Coasters), which means I am getting on the Van Wyck at least for a little to get anywhere and T4 can be crowded, and it is longggg.  Traffic to get out of JFK or there is a nightmare.  LGA and through LIC and into the Midtown Tunnel is perfect.

[Adam White]

Yea Ben, why no Delta?  As a legacy thing I kept my rewards/points with Delta when I moved to SFO, which is a United and the Virgin hub, but I prefer DL to UA, easily (and I do have a lot of experience with UA now here in SF).  I understand AA has newer planes on average?  But being in Jax, I would think planes outa Jax are typically smaller, older, and not of the same quality of style as planes out of an SFO or similar airport.  For instance, my flights to NYC (and I don't have an LGA option, only Newark or JFK, choosing the latter to get up to CT) are 25+% business class, and the business class is 100% flatbed on all flights.  Of course, larger planes.  Pretty sure in Jax there are very few if any wide bodies or large planes with large business classes flying anywhere, right?

Peejay...LGA is hard to get anywhere from?  Where are you going when you get to NYC?  I find LGA to be the most convenient, but it doesn't handle W Coast flights so much.  I get put into JFK Terminal 4 (the best, largest, and newest terminal at JFK...with 2 Shakeshacks even tho Shakeshack is vastly inferior to Super Duper where I live I just gotta throw that out there since it resonates with E Coasters), which means I am getting on the Van Wyck at least for a little to get anywhere and T4 can be crowded, and it is longggg.  Traffic to get out of JFK or there is a nightmare.  LGA and through LIC and into the Midtown Tunnel is perfect.

I really don't care for Delta. It's better than USAirways, but not by much. After enough bad experiences, I basically decided to fly Virgin to Orlando and deal with the drive to Jax rather than flying on Delta or USAirways.

[simms3]

^^^You're international right?  I wouldn't be caught dead on a Delta International transAtlantic flight, especially if the int'l option has codeshare with Delta.  But I wouldn't judge any of these airlines by flights out of JIA.  The last time I flew between NYC and Jax, it was Delta of course (well some small airline operated by Delta), and I felt like it was a private jet converted to haul 50 people.  I was in first (if that's what you could call it on this flight), and even then the air conditioning was all but broke and the lone flight attendant could not do her job because the plane was too small and had too many people.  Plus there were babies.  Lots of them.  It was a disaster.  My mom and sister don't travel much and don't care about loyalty and they fly Jetblue to New York.

My Delta flights from SFO to JFK are literally the exact opposite.  I think JIA is akin to a "discount airport" like Southwest is a discount airline (without the actual discount).

[ben says]

Let me start by saying: I find LGA to be the best option for NYC. It's not the best option for needing to connect to an international flight of course, but it is the best option for convenience - getting to/from the city is much easier than to/from JFK.

Secondly: I ONLY care about international flights. ONLY. Reason being: most of my flights are in the 8-16 hour range. I need to be in first class when possible. Call me a snob, it is what it is.

Why no Delta?

1. You cannot use their miles to get international first class tix on partner airlines. Yes, you can use them to get business class, but I want first. Restrictive...

2. In the same vein, Delta runs a 3 class product (econ, econ+, and biz). The lack of a legitimate first class is a negative in my book. Restrictive...

3. Limited partnerships. Sky Team is a small alliance compared to One World and Star Alliance. Your options with DL are VERY limited - and in all likelihood, your only flight options besides DL are KLM and Air France. If you're lucky, you can find some availability on Korean or Virgin Australia, but it's becoming quite rare. I want options, and DL doesn't provide them. Restrictive...

4. Not only are the miles hard to use, but they're hard to earn. Delta's revenue based flying program means you'll almost NEVER get enough miles for an *actual* good award ticket. One with limited to no stops, good seats, etc. Furthermore, DL is secretive to a fault, as they refuse to even publish an award chart now.

5. It's almost moot that the miles are hard to use/earn, as Delta miles are f'ing worthless (that's putting it nicely). To call them SkyPesos is being WAY too nice.

6. Statistically speaking, Delta miles are the least valuable in the whole industry (they're worth less than Hilton points, and that's saying something). Not only are they not valuable anymore, but they lose value daily...

A few good articles, in layman speak, on how bad Delta has gotten recently...

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/07/17/deltas-latest-devaluation-is-even-worse-than-i-thought/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/your-money/in-deltas-frequent-flier-magic-trick-not-just-rabbits-disappear.html?_r=1

I like American, despite their dated domestic product, because their miles are worth something, they have a great partner network, and they aren't secretive.

For instance, I just used 120k AA miles for fly Etihad, JAX - JFK - Abu Dhabi - Cairo (and return). I used another 115k for JAX - JFK - Hong Kong - Bangkok and return. IN FIRST CLASS.

Try doing that in Delta....LOL. What a joke.

[Adam White]

^^^You're international right?  I wouldn't be caught dead on a Delta International transAtlantic flight, especially if the int'l option has codeshare with Delta.  But I wouldn't judge any of these airlines by flights out of JIA.  The last time I flew between NYC and Jax, it was Delta of course (well some small airline operated by Delta), and I felt like it was a private jet converted to haul 50 people.  I was in first (if that's what you could call it on this flight), and even then the air conditioning was all but broke and the lone flight attendant could not do her job because the plane was too small and had too many people.  Plus there were babies.  Lots of them.  It was a disaster.  My mom and sister don't travel much and don't care about loyalty and they fly Jetblue to New York.

My Delta flights from SFO to JFK are literally the exact opposite.  I think JIA is akin to a "discount airport" like Southwest is a discount airline (without the actual discount).

Yeah, they were international flights. One was a Lufthansa codeshare. The upside of that flight (if there was one) was that David Miliband was on our flight and my wife saw Chilli from TLC at the Atlanta airport.

[simms3]

Let me start by saying: I find LGA to be the best option for NYC. It's not the best option for needing to connect to an international flight of course, but it is the best option for convenience - getting to/from the city is much easier than to/from JFK.

Secondly: I ONLY care about international flights. ONLY. Reason being: most of my flights are in the 8-16 hour range. I need to be in first class when possible. Call me a snob, it is what it is.

Why no Delta?

1. You cannot use their miles to get international first class tix on partner airlines. Yes, you can use them to get business class, but I want first. Restrictive...

2. In the same vein, Delta runs a 3 class product (econ, econ+, and biz). The lack of a legitimate first class is a negative in my book. Restrictive...

3. Limited partnerships. Sky Team is a small alliance compared to One World and Star Alliance. Your options with DL are VERY limited - and in all likelihood, your only flight options besides DL are KLM and Air France. If you're lucky, you can find some availability on Korean or Virgin Australia, but it's becoming quite rare. I want options, and DL doesn't provide them. Restrictive...

4. Not only are the miles hard to use, but they're hard to earn. Delta's revenue based flying program means you'll almost NEVER get enough miles for an *actual* good award ticket. One with limited to no stops, good seats, etc. Furthermore, DL is secretive to a fault, as they refuse to even publish an award chart now.

5. It's almost moot that the miles are hard to use/earn, as Delta miles are f'ing worthless (that's putting it nicely). To call them SkyPesos is being WAY too nice.

6. Statistically speaking, Delta miles are the least valuable in the whole industry (they're worth less than Hilton points, and that's saying something). Not only are they not valuable anymore, but they lose value daily...

A few good articles, in layman speak, on how bad Delta has gotten recently...

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/07/17/deltas-latest-devaluation-is-even-worse-than-i-thought/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/your-money/in-deltas-frequent-flier-magic-trick-not-just-rabbits-disappear.html?_r=1

I like American, despite their dated domestic product, because their miles are worth something, they have a great partner network, and they aren't secretive.

For instance, I just used 120k AA miles for fly Etihad, JAX - JFK - Abu Dhabi - Cairo (and return). I used another 115k for JAX - JFK - Hong Kong - Bangkok and return. IN FIRST CLASS.

Try doing that in Delta....LOL. What a joke.

Hmmm, very interesting.  I admittedly don't know much at all beyond what my status gets me, the limited flights I take (for instance, I actually never fly to Jax, so I'm on transcon flights only between major business centers where the planes/service are likely to be quite different than what the average person would experience, especially from Jax where flights are probably on regional planes with limited service/class delineations...last time I flew to Jax I flew through Orlando and drove up), and I've never ever used any of my miles, so I actually don't know anything about what they get you with Delta.

I have run into restrictions on their alliance before (as I am now with my next trip).

The one advantage I will say Delta has with its domestic network is its hub cities.  It is super focused on New York and uses the best terminal, arguably, at JFK (I wish transcons went to LGA, as stated before...way more convenient, but worst airport in America).  I actually really like the Minneapolis airport as well, for connections that aren't too far out of the way.  From SFO, a non-hub, Delta goes to NYC, LA, Seattle, Atlanta, and a all the other hubs + some, which is no United (where SFO is a hub), but it works for me.  The only places I go repeatedly that DL doesn't get me to direct are Denver and Chicago (both United hubs as well), and Orange County (which has a United flight to SFO, but is mostly Southwest oriented to Oakland).

Ben, if I were to request to transfer all or as many of my miles as possible to another airline, what would you recommend?  Keep in mind I'm likely to stay in San Francisco for a while, and if I ever moved, I would only accept a move to NYC, London, or perhaps Hong Kong (where I once already tried to get a job and didn't make the cut).  I would not move to Chicago at this point, and I wouldn't even consider a move to DC/Boston/Philly or anywhere in the South.  Very NYC-SF lifestyle/job focused here.  I'm very open to switching airlines and have some status already with United, Southwest, and Virgin America (the latter of which is so easy to get status and it is hubbed in SFO).  I've had bad experiences losing luggage on AA, though may be just a fluke (2 for 2, literally).

[fsquid]

Let me start by saying: I find LGA to be the best option for NYC. It's not the best option for needing to connect to an international flight of course, but it is the best option for convenience - getting to/from the city is much easier than to/from JFK.

Secondly: I ONLY care about international flights. ONLY. Reason being: most of my flights are in the 8-16 hour range. I need to be in first class when possible. Call me a snob, it is what it is.

Why no Delta?

1. You cannot use their miles to get international first class tix on partner airlines. Yes, you can use them to get business class, but I want first. Restrictive...

2. In the same vein, Delta runs a 3 class product (econ, econ+, and biz). The lack of a legitimate first class is a negative in my book. Restrictive...

3. Limited partnerships. Sky Team is a small alliance compared to One World and Star Alliance. Your options with DL are VERY limited - and in all likelihood, your only flight options besides DL are KLM and Air France. If you're lucky, you can find some availability on Korean or Virgin Australia, but it's becoming quite rare. I want options, and DL doesn't provide them. Restrictive...

4. Not only are the miles hard to use, but they're hard to earn. Delta's revenue based flying program means you'll almost NEVER get enough miles for an *actual* good award ticket. One with limited to no stops, good seats, etc. Furthermore, DL is secretive to a fault, as they refuse to even publish an award chart now.

5. It's almost moot that the miles are hard to use/earn, as Delta miles are f'ing worthless (that's putting it nicely). To call them SkyPesos is being WAY too nice.

6. Statistically speaking, Delta miles are the least valuable in the whole industry (they're worth less than Hilton points, and that's saying something). Not only are they not valuable anymore, but they lose value daily...

A few good articles, in layman speak, on how bad Delta has gotten recently...

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/07/17/deltas-latest-devaluation-is-even-worse-than-i-thought/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/your-money/in-deltas-frequent-flier-magic-trick-not-just-rabbits-disappear.html?_r=1

I like American, despite their dated domestic product, because their miles are worth something, they have a great partner network, and they aren't secretive.

For instance, I just used 120k AA miles for fly Etihad, JAX - JFK - Abu Dhabi - Cairo (and return). I used another 115k for JAX - JFK - Hong Kong - Bangkok and return. IN FIRST CLASS.

Try doing that in Delta....LOL. What a joke.

can't say I disagree, I only keep my Delta medallion status because my company will bump me up a level every year which makes travel a bit more comfortable.

[David]

I love flying direct into LGA. Take the ground shuttle to Manhattan, 13 bucks, bada bing bada boom, you're there. The view of the city when you're flying in and out is nice as well.

[spuwho]

We never use DL for international. They use coach style seat pitches for long (8+) flights. Not acceptable.

We will use DL for connection choices through ATL, but we hate ATL, especially in the summertime due to constant power outages due to weather.  So its a case by case deal.

For International I will take Jet Blue to JFK or drive to OIA.

For cheapie domestic I have been testing Allegiant Air over Southwest. Requires a drive to Sanford.

I just used AA miles for a trip out of Jax to Seattle and it was the most hassle free experience I have ever had. Recommended.

We have been using Marriott points more than Hilton.

Use Virgin Atlantic for London flights. I use Lufthansa for European or African destinations.

United still owns the rights for the old Pan Am route to South Africa via Miami to Buenos Aires but they arent using it. Have to use SAA out of Dulles or Lufthansa out of Frankfort.