I-295 East Beltway Being Expanded to 12 Lanes

[thelakelander]

^No need to. What we've accepted as typical in the past is being changed as society's transportation infrastructure preferences change. Just look at FDOT's bicycle lane requirements.  30 years ago, we were still building major arterials without them.  Then we went with 4' wide bicycle lanes as a standard.  That lead to unsafe facilities like the bicycle lanes on Beach Boulevard.  Now, the new standard is 7' buffered bicycle lanes. In other words, what was typical ended up evolving with the times. Locally, we may be arriving late to the party (making urban limited access corridors multimodal friendly) but we'll increasingly become more multimodal as our demographics change and population increases.

[Know Growth]

 I tripped across some information years ago that suggested that six lanes in one direction was maximum that could realistically function.
We're there! Florida's First Coast-Where Miami Begins!

Regards future volume of average daily traffic,let's not forget that the landscape we see today is not what we will necessarily see or live with later-what in fact is the "projected" development ("Growth!!! ) for the subject area,what is the current vesting and what is the anticipated land use/zone change assumed to be easily granted by the citizen's government?

We snoop around these matters typically long after future events have been empowered.

[tufsu1]

Well, its not a 12 lane section.  It's an existing 4-lane section with a 4 new lanes, so 8 lanes and aux lanes for on and off ramps.

The DB team added a bunch of new improvements to score more points, which the public should really like. 

Again, stay tuned!

that's semantics.  I would agree that saying it is 12 lanes might be a stretch, but it sure as heck is more than 8 in places.  I wonder if this is consistent with the adopted 2040 long range transportation plan? It sure wouldn't be with the one fone for 2035

[tufsu1]

So is the long term plan to add express lanes to every stretch of I-10, I-95 and I-295 through town?

The general direction is that all new interstate capacity projects will be tolled/express lanes.    This includes I-10 and I-95. 

THAT IS RIDICULOUS.  Again, the 2035 LRTP (far more progressive than the new one) did not envision any new capacity north of SR 202 on I-95 or inside the beltway on I-10.  ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

[thelakelander]

Well, its not a 12 lane section.  It's an existing 4-lane section with a 4 new lanes, so 8 lanes and aux lanes for on and off ramps.

The DB team added a bunch of new improvements to score more points, which the public should really like. 

Again, stay tuned!

that's semantics.  I would agree that saying it is 12 lanes might be a stretch, but it sure as heck is more than 8 in places.  I wonder if this is consistent with the adopted 2040 long range transportation plan? It sure wouldn't be with the one fone for 2035

To be clear, the text in the article said "as many as 12 lanes" in some stretches.  Now it's simply semantics if we want to label them general purpose, aux lanes, express lanes, etc.





^I understand Southside has said they have more recent plans as of Wednesday, but in general, between Baymeadows and JTB, the typical cross sections are illustrating 12 to 13 lanes (aux + gpl + el).

[coredumped]

^No need to. What we've accepted as typical in the past is being changed as society's transportation infrastructure preferences change. Just look at FDOT's bicycle lane requirements.  30 years ago, we were still building major arterials without them.  Then we went with 4' wide bicycle lanes as a standard.  That lead to unsafe facilities like the bicycle lanes on Beach Boulevard.  Now, the new standard is 7' buffered bicycle lanes. In other words, what was typical ended up evolving with the times. Locally, we may be arriving late to the party (making urban limited access corridors multimodal friendly) but we'll increasingly become more multimodal as our demographics change and population increases.

But the problem is if we don't do it when it's first built it will never get built. There's never any money for things other than cars it seems.

The suncoast trail ( https://goo.gl/maps/ODHQe ) goes through some very rural areas and they got that funded somehow. It seems more times than not when comparing us to other cities in Florida I'm left saying "why not Jax?"

[jaxjags]

I get the feeling that what southsider is implying is that the design-build team awarded the project has made some design changes acceptable to FDOT. If not a multi model path, maybe some bike/ped improvements at both Gate and Baymeadows. Noise walls, although I hate them as they tend to be ugly. A couple of those interchanges look like prime areas for the inverted diamond.

[thelakelander]

^No need to. What we've accepted as typical in the past is being changed as society's transportation infrastructure preferences change. Just look at FDOT's bicycle lane requirements.  30 years ago, we were still building major arterials without them.  Then we went with 4' wide bicycle lanes as a standard.  That lead to unsafe facilities like the bicycle lanes on Beach Boulevard.  Now, the new standard is 7' buffered bicycle lanes. In other words, what was typical ended up evolving with the times. Locally, we may be arriving late to the party (making urban limited access corridors multimodal friendly) but we'll increasingly become more multimodal as our demographics change and population increases.

But the problem is if we don't do it when it's first built it will never get built. There's never any money for things other than cars it seems.

The suncoast trail ( https://goo.gl/maps/ODHQe ) goes through some very rural areas and they got that funded somehow. It seems more times than not when comparing us to other cities in Florida I'm left saying "why not Jax?"

^Very true. Why not Jax?  Northeast Florida is a pretty conservative place when it comes to moving on from things considered "tradition". Unfortunately, many making these decisions for us at the public and consulting levels are behind the times in fully embracing the concept of multimodal planning and investment.  Thus, we're at a point, where the community has to advocate for better investments, which provides the political cover for those in government who have more direct influence on change.  This was the method applied to the Fuller Warren Bridge situation and it led to a better product. FDOT will win awards for it when it's completed!

[Dog Walker]

This could be a fantastic plus for Jacksonville!  Expand the east beltway, re-do the interchanges then re-designate it as I-95 and the current portion that comes through the city could be I-295.

Move all of the through traffic around our city rather than through the middle of it. 

If they had done this first the I-10/I-95 intersection would not have to be re-re-re built.  When the latest interchange project is finished there will have been 22 years of continuous construction in and around the interchange and the Fuller Warren Bridge.

Tampa and St. Pete had I-75 routed around their cities.  Richmond had I-95 routed around their city center too.

[southsider1015]

This could be a fantastic plus for Jacksonville!  Expand the east beltway, re-do the interchanges then re-designate it as I-95 and the current portion that comes through the city could be I-295.

Move all of the through traffic around our city rather than through the middle of it. 

If they had done this first the I-10/I-95 intersection would not have to be re-re-re built.  When the latest interchange project is finished there will have been 22 years of continuous construction in and around the interchange and the Fuller Warren Bridge.

Tampa and St. Pete had I-75 routed around their cities.  Richmond had I-95 routed around their city center too.

Precisely.  Not saying this is happening, of course, but it's certainly an idea. 

[southsider1015]

So is the long term plan to add express lanes to every stretch of I-10, I-95 and I-295 through town?

The general direction is that all new interstate capacity projects will be tolled/express lanes.    This includes I-10 and I-95. 

THAT IS RIDICULOUS.  Again, the 2035 LRTP (far more progressive than the new one) did not envision any new capacity north of SR 202 on I-95 or inside the beltway on I-10.  ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

Let me clarify.  All new interstate capacity projects, if needed and/or funded for construction, will likely be tolled.  I'm not stating that I-10 or I-95 needs to be widened today (or in the future), just that IF widening was needed, then its VERY likely that the new lanes would be Express Lanes/Managed Lanes.  Existing interstate lanes would likely remain non-tolled (free) due to the severe public backlash that typically comes with changing free lanes to toll lanes (See FCX).

As Charles had posted, there are a number of PD&E studies occuring or that will occur over the next few years that will be looking into current traffic/anticipated traffic, a variety of alternatives for different typical sections for additional lanes if needed, and the impacts to the surrounding areas.  I-10, I-95, and I-295 are all on that list.

[pierre]

This could be a fantastic plus for Jacksonville!  Expand the east beltway, re-do the interchanges then re-designate it as I-95 and the current portion that comes through the city could be I-295.

Move all of the through traffic around our city rather than through the middle of it. 

If they had done this first the I-10/I-95 intersection would not have to be re-re-re built.  When the latest interchange project is finished there will have been 22 years of continuous construction in and around the interchange and the Fuller Warren Bridge.

Tampa and St. Pete had I-75 routed around their cities.  Richmond had I-95 routed around their city center too.

I don't believe there are any plans to expand the section of 295 north of JTB, so I do not think that could work.

[Charles Hunter]

This could be a fantastic plus for Jacksonville!  Expand the east beltway, re-do the interchanges then re-designate it as I-95 and the current portion that comes through the city could be I-295.

Move all of the through traffic around our city rather than through the middle of it. 

If they had done this first the I-10/I-95 intersection would not have to be re-re-re built.  When the latest interchange project is finished there will have been 22 years of continuous construction in and around the interchange and the Fuller Warren Bridge.

Tampa and St. Pete had I-75 routed around their cities.  Richmond had I-95 routed around their city center too.

I don't believe there are any plans to expand the section of 295 north of JTB, so I do not think that could work.

To quote myself

The next piece of Express Lanes, from JTB to Merrill Road / Southside Connector (south end of the Dames Point Bridge), has some money for engineering in 2020.  Construction must be some time after then.
http://www2.dot.state.fl.us/fmsupportapps/workprogram/Support/WPItemRept.ASPX?RF=WP&D=02&CD=72&WM=0213|ADD%20LANES%20&%20RECONSTRUCT&SC=01|INTRASTATE%20INTERSTATE&FY=TRUE|TRUE|TRUE|TRUE|TRUE|FALSE&ITM=209301~4&RP=ITEM

This is for environmental and engineering work, construction would likely be in a few years after the study in 2020. 
There is also a project for the piece between the Dames Point Bridge and I-95 - some engineering and buying right-of-way over the next couple years: http://www2.dot.state.fl.us/fmsupportapps/workprogram/Support/WPItemRept.ASPX?RF=WP&IT=209658&IS=4&FY=

[thelakelander]

This could be a fantastic plus for Jacksonville!  Expand the east beltway, re-do the interchanges then re-designate it as I-95 and the current portion that comes through the city could be I-295.

Move all of the through traffic around our city rather than through the middle of it. 

If they had done this first the I-10/I-95 intersection would not have to be re-re-re built.  When the latest interchange project is finished there will have been 22 years of continuous construction in and around the interchange and the Fuller Warren Bridge.

Tampa and St. Pete had I-75 routed around their cities.  Richmond had I-95 routed around their city center too.

Precisely.  Not saying this is happening, of course, but it's certainly an idea. 

What difference would it make?  I-275 carries a ton of more traffic than I-75 in Tampa now. It's being widened through the core of that city as we speak now. Same goes for Richmond (I-95 was not rerouted). I-95 is being widened north of downtown despite I-295 bypassing the city on the outskirts. As long as we have residents, businesses, factories, warehouses, port terminals, etc. inside the beltway, we'll have a heavy amount of traffic that will need to be efficiently moved through the city.

[southsider1015]

This could be a fantastic plus for Jacksonville!  Expand the east beltway, re-do the interchanges then re-designate it as I-95 and the current portion that comes through the city could be I-295.

Move all of the through traffic around our city rather than through the middle of it. 

If they had done this first the I-10/I-95 intersection would not have to be re-re-re built.  When the latest interchange project is finished there will have been 22 years of continuous construction in and around the interchange and the Fuller Warren Bridge.

Tampa and St. Pete had I-75 routed around their cities.  Richmond had I-95 routed around their city center too.

Precisely.  Not saying this is happening, of course, but it's certainly an idea. 

What difference would it make?  I-275 carries a ton of more traffic than I-75 in Tampa now. It's being widened through the core of that city as we speak now. Same goes for Richmond (I-95 was not rerouted). I-95 is being widened north of downtown despite I-295 bypassing the city on the outskirts. As long as we have residents, businesses, factories, warehouses, port terminals, etc. inside the beltway, we'll have a heavy amount of traffic that will need to be efficiently moved through the city.

The difference is regional traffic.  Every little bit helps.