O.K. Seriously....why isn't there a taco bell downtown?

[menace1069]

There used to be a Firehouse...closed due to lack of business I assume; also, there is a Jimmy Johns now. Both on the North Bank.
I work downtown and I totally get what he's saying. You have 1 hour for lunch and you want to maximize it without having to get your car out of the garage and drive, eat and then spend 15 minutes trying to find another spot in an overcrowded garage.

[TPC]

Because Downtown is a destination. The fast food places you mentioned are synonymous with drive throughs, which are usually visited on said route to a destination and usually on the outskirts.

[Spitfire]

Why would you need Taco Bell when you have Burrito Gallery? I don't comprehend.

[simms3]

I think the point is that there is a dearth of fast food right downtown, which is super atypical of any downtown.  Not sure why this is the case, but having a couple Subways (open 24 hours), McDonald's (again, open 24 hours), and other fast options (perhaps Chipotle) would be typical and a nice, convenient option in any city.

In the Bostons, San Franciscos, and New Yorks of the world, there are "local" fast food joints that are superior (by far) to the national chains but still fast and cheap.  Also grab-n-go spots (Proper Food is a super cheap, grab-n-go option opening up 10 new locations here in the financial district).

The other obvious question is why there isn't a single Starbucks downtown.  I'm not a fan, myself, but I look at this as some sort of sign that there is an inherent issue downtown if a Starbucks does not see a reason to open a location there.  I realize there used to be two.  Two would make sense for a city Jacksonville's size.  Maybe even 3.  Why are the real estate departments of these major major corporations avoiding downtown Jacksonville?

[Adam White]

Why would you need Taco Bell when you have Burrito Gallery? I don't comprehend.

1) They aren't really serving the same sort of food (even if they both supposedly sell "southwestern" cuisine).

2) Some people don't like Burrito Gallery. I've never been impressed, personally.

3) It's nice to have options.

[Adam White]

I think the point is that there is a dearth of fast food right downtown, which is super atypical of any downtown.  Not sure why this is the case, but having a couple Subways (open 24 hours), McDonald's (again, open 24 hours), and other fast options (perhaps Chipotle) would be typical and a nice, convenient option in any city.

In the Bostons, San Franciscos, and New Yorks of the world, there are "local" fast food joints that are superior (by far) to the national chains but still fast and cheap.  Also grab-n-go spots (Proper Food is a super cheap, grab-n-go option opening up 10 new locations here in the financial district).

The other obvious question is why there isn't a single Starbucks downtown.  I'm not a fan, myself, but I look at this as some sort of sign that there is an inherent issue downtown if a Starbucks does not see a reason to open a location there.  I realize there used to be two.  Two would make sense for a city Jacksonville's size.  Maybe even 3.  Why are the real estate departments of these major major corporations avoiding downtown Jacksonville?

It's crazy that Jax doesn't have a Starbucks downtown. I agree 100% that it's a good barometer for what's happening (or isn't) downtown. On a separate note, I was at the St Johns Town Centre one day and realized I could stand in a spot and see three Starbucks locations (sort of) - the main Starbucks, Barnes and Noble (which has a Starbucks) and Target (which has a Starbucks).

[simms3]

^^^Honestly, this is going to sound snobby and I have to preface that I don't drink Starbucks and probably live in one of the top 3 coffee cities in the world with multiple good options on nearly every block of the city, but where do downtown Jax workers get coffee?  Beside Bold Bean (in Riverside) and a couple one off places elsewhere in town that are decent, I have no expectations for any mom and pop to be good, at all (in Jax...this is just the honest truth and if you think yo shit good, you need to get out of Jax more).  Starbucks would actually be better than the drip I get at these "cafes".  And there are no Starbucks downtown.  Seriously, where. do. people. get. coffee. downtown?  There is a Starbucks, Peet's, and a whole host of other coffee providers on every single block in my downtown and there are lines out the door at every single location, sometimes starting at 5 AM when the traders and bankers start showing up for work.  And there is not one Starbucks in all of downtown Jax?!?!?!  It blows my mind that this is a possibility.

This goes with the point about McDonald's.  You're in the office one day, one day out of the year, and all of a sudden you have a hankering for a Big Mac.  Where do you get one?  Out of tens of thousands of daily office workers, let alone bums and people passing through downtown for social services and court related stuff, you'd think there's enough of a crowd there to support some McDonald's!  And Starbucks.  Perhaps a Chipotle.

[DDC]

The cafe in the Bus Depot used to be a Burger King, back in the day.

There used to be a Krystal's under the Fuller Warren Bridge

There used to be more people downtown to support fast food chains, they left to go to the suburbs.

There used to be Krystal at Ocean and Forsyth as well, and a Wendy's on Main somewhere around Duval or Monroe.

And the run through Springfield will take you to a Popeyes and a KFC

But I get it... sometimes you just need Taco Bell.

[Adam White]

^^^Honestly, this is going to sound snobby and I have to preface that I don't drink Starbucks and probably live in one of the top 3 coffee cities in the world with multiple good options on nearly every block of the city, but where do downtown Jax workers get coffee?  Beside Bold Bean (in Riverside) and a couple one off places elsewhere in town that are decent, I have no expectations for any mom and pop to be good, at all (in Jax...this is just the honest truth and if you think yo shit good, you need to get out of Jax more).  Starbucks would actually be better than the drip I get at these "cafes".  And there are no Starbucks downtown.  Seriously, where. do. people. get. coffee. downtown?  There is a Starbucks, Peet's, and a whole host of other coffee providers on every single block in my downtown and there are lines out the door at every single location, sometimes starting at 5 AM when the traders and bankers start showing up for work.  And there is not one Starbucks in all of downtown Jax?!?!?!  It blows my mind that this is a possibility.

This goes with the point about McDonald's.  You're in the office one day, one day out of the year, and all of a sudden you have a hankering for a Big Mac.  Where do you get one?  Out of tens of thousands of daily office workers, let alone bums and people passing through downtown for social services and court related stuff, you'd think there's enough of a crowd there to support some McDonald's!  And Starbucks.  Perhaps a Chipotle.

7-Eleven! They have good coffee - better than most convenience stores. But they aren't a coffee shop and (unless things have changed dramatically since I was a Field Consultant for them 15 or so years ago) you can't get fancy coffee drinks (like a latte or macchiato or flat white or whatever).

But it's about having choices or options. Most people aren't going to want Chomp Chomp or Burrito Gallery, etc every day. Of course, this will all likely change when Jax gets its downtown sorted out and more people start living and working there.

[I-10east]

An "I want a particular 'high end restaurant' DT comment = Generally mass agreement.

An "I want a particular regular fast food restaurant DT comment = It's nothing special; Why do you wanna eat that anyway? GMO's yada yada yada...

The man want a Taco Bell DT, why change the subject to local restaurants? So much for having an opinion.

[mtraininjax]

And there is not one Starbucks in all of downtown Jax?!?!?!  It blows my mind that this is a possibility.

There used to be one in the 1st floor of 11E and one in the Landing. Kinda shocked too that they are not there, but there is one in San Marco, Riverside and Fairfax Manor/Avondale.

Goes to show you that downtown is NOT a destination, if there isn't a starbucks. For that matter Springfield has been left out too 

[MusicMan]

I think the Starbucks comments are extremely relevant but perhaps should have their own thread. Starbucks is a barometer of how your downtown is doing, that is a fair statement and accurate. There was a very busy one in The Landing. It was right out front so there was easy access and good visibility. I never really understood why it closed, you could never get an honest answer, but I'm pretty sure it made money.
The best location for it IMO would have been inside on the water, which would have drawn customers through The Landing as opposed to never actually entering it, as the old setup was. Many customers use Starbucks as a mobile office space, and those folks could have set up with a lovely river view and done their "business" right there. I'm pretty confident if one opened up anywhere downtown it would do great. There used to be a Starbucks kiosk inside the Omni, and I spent money there every morning my work took me downtown (70 mornings per year?). Now they shut that down. I asked the Manager at the ground floor restaurant "why?" and he literally had no answer. I told him he just lost my business and he shrugged his shoulders. That's downtown Jax in a nutshell.

The other day I went to my daughters Sunday afternoon concert with the Jacksonville Symphony Youth Orchestra at Jacoby Hall inside the TU PAC. When it was over I went outside with my son to get the car. The weather was spectacular, clear sunny and warm. We left the TU and went out to the riverfront area, which right there, is actually beautiful. It was pretty much abandoned, maybe 20 people. On an absolutely gorgeous day. It was incredibly beautiful, the perfect day to stroll along the river and enjoy the openess of the space and the beauty of the River. We were pretty much alone. That's downtown Jax. It has unlimited and untapped potential, but our City leadership has either chosen to not do anything about it or does not know how to market it properly. If this had been Pittsburgh or Boston or pretty much any other North American City with a large and beautiful waterfront walkway it would have been crowded with people strolling , enjoying the weather and spending money.................  Just not here. The person who can figure out how to draw people downtown to enjoy the Riverwalk will be the one who transforms downtown. And let's be honest, Tony Sleiman has failed, miserably. The urban core is neat but without the River as your destination/focal point it will never really grow into a mature downtown .  Just my $.02

[mtraininjax]

but our City leadership has either chosen to not do anything about it or does not know how to market it properly.

Let's all hope and pray that the NEW administration does more with downtown than the last one.

[Noone]

I think the Starbucks comments are extremely relevant but perhaps should have their own thread. Starbucks is a barometer of how your downtown is doing, that is a fair statement and accurate. There was a very busy one in The Landing. It was right out front so there was easy access and good visibility. I never really understood why it closed, you could never get an honest answer, but I'm pretty sure it made money.
The best location for it IMO would have been inside on the water, which would have drawn customers through The Landing as opposed to never actually entering it, as the old setup was. Many customers use Starbucks as a mobile office space, and those folks could have set up with a lovely river view and done their "business" right there. I'm pretty confident if one opened up anywhere downtown it would do great. There used to be a Starbucks kiosk inside the Omni, and I spent money there every morning my work took me downtown (70 mornings per year?). Now they shut that down. I asked the Manager at the ground floor restaurant "why?" and he literally had no answer. I told him he just lost my business and he shrugged his shoulders. That's downtown Jax in a nutshell.

The other day I went to my daughters Sunday afternoon concert with the Jacksonville Symphony Youth Orchestra at Jacoby Hall inside the TU PAC. When it was over I went outside with my son to get the car. The weather was spectacular, clear sunny and warm. We left the TU and went out to the riverfront area, which right there, is actually beautiful. It was pretty much abandoned, maybe 20 people. On an absolutely gorgeous day. It was incredibly beautiful, the perfect day to stroll along the river and enjoy the openess of the space and the beauty of the River. We were pretty much alone. That's downtown Jax. It has unlimited and untapped potential, but our City leadership has either chosen to not do anything about it or does not know how to market it properly. If this had been Pittsburgh or Boston or pretty much any other North American City with a large and beautiful waterfront walkway it would have been crowded with people strolling , enjoying the weather and spending money.................  Just not here. The person who can figure out how to draw people downtown to enjoy the Riverwalk will be the one who transforms downtown. And let's be honest, Tony Sleiman has failed, miserably. The urban core is neat but without the River as your destination/focal point it will never really grow into a mature downtown .  Just my $.02

+1

[MusicMan]

Mayor Brown's 4 years did not create the disaster that is downtown Jacksonville. It came from decades of horrible planning and a total lack of a concerted effort by all the major "movers and shakers" in greater Duval.

I just got back from Greenville SC and what they have achieved in their downtown core (in the last 15 years) with far less is nothing short of astounding.