The New Lie About Iraq

[finehoe]

The newest lie about the Iraq war is that the truth about Iraq was not known before the American attack in 2003. One needs only to search for "lies about Iraq" to see all the many links explaining evidence from before the war started that showed the Bush/Cheney/neoconservative claims to be false.

That false narrative is important to know because many of the same people are now promoting war with Iran, as they were before with Syria. Republican candidates are also stumbling over the question of whether they would have invaded Iraq because it undermines their present, ongoing promotion of an interventionist foreign policy.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-new-lie-about-iraq/?mc_c

[spuwho]

General Tommy Franks was quoted as saying: "I think no one in this country probably was more surprised than I when weapons of mass destruction were not used against our troops as they moved toward Baghdad."

Tough to explain that to several of my friends who have been suffering from "Gulf Disease" since they finished Desert Storm. Something happened. One is the last of his platoon to still be alive.  The other is suffering from skin lesions and muscle problems.

Iraq has lessons for many areas, peoples and beliefs.

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, currently undergoing treatment in Milwaukee, WI, VA MEDICAL CENTER after 6 consecutive surgeries, the neoliberal denials are getting a bit boring. Some of us have 'seen the elephant.' 

[JeffreyS]

Invading armies have been getting and giving disease as long as there has been invasions. That is no excuse for wearing tin foil hats. It was a lie deal with it and move forward.

[Adam White]

It's just as probable (if not more) that veterans are suffering the ill-effects of US ordnance that was used during the war - with depleted uranium being the most likely culprit.

http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_book.html

[Ocklawaha]

It's just as probable (if not more) that veterans are suffering the ill-effects of US ordnance that was used during the war - with depleted uranium being the most likely culprit.

Well (fortunately?) in my case it was neither, I strongly suspect though that had the US been using any type of uranium weapons, dirty bombs etc it would be widely known and virtually every government in the world would have us on trial, cut relations, or simply considered us guilty by association.

Invading armies have been getting and giving disease as long as there has been invasions. That is no excuse for wearing tin foil hats. It was a lie deal with it and move forward.

True, it was the original Khan whose armies discovered 'germ warfare' and catapulted bodies infected with the black plague over the city walls as they swept across Asia and large chunks of Europe. Get's em every time!

You second point is rather vague on this Memorial Day Weekend, suggestive of the Islands of Hawaii sneaking up on the Imperial Japanese Fleet or President Roosevelt inviting them to Pearl Harbor because, well, Nanking went so well. I'm not putting you down here, just to say there are always two reasons for wearing tin foil hats, aggressor or defender. I don't buy the (usually but not always) liberal arguments that every evil plot to milk the world of all resources, money, time and slave labor as well as every war since the fall of Jericho was a United States conspiracy, or a Republican conspiracy (though the one war all liberals defend, the Northern side of the War of Yankee Aggression actually was a completely needless Republican conspiracy).

Last, when you toss out "it was a lie, deal with it and move forward," you are making a statement that only President Bush knows for certain one way or the other. You might be interested to know however that we now know for certain that before the Gulf War invasion Iraq sent long convoys of 18 wheeler trucks from various bases into a valley I believe is in the Syrian controlled part of Lebanon. They were NEVER inspected, we never got our hands on them and NOBODY can say what might have been on them. The nut case had used advanced WMD's against his own people killing thousands of Kurds so at least at one point he DID have the weapons... we simply never found them.

In conclusion, deal with it and move forward is what I myself and thousands of other veterans are trying to do this weekend, but it's hard to do from a VA hospital bed.

[Adam White]

Sorry Ock - the use of depleted uranium munitions by the USA is widely documented - by the US government, amongst others. Whether or not it is the cause - or a cause - of Gulf War Disease remains to be seen.

The USA has committed untold numbers of war crimes and never been held to account for them. The use of depleted uranium munitions likely wouldn't even be considered a war crime anyway. I'm not entirely certain of their legal status, but I don't think they're considered illegal - not that they aren't without controversy.

[JeffreyS]

In conclusion, deal with it and move forward is what I myself and thousands of other veterans are trying to do this weekend, but it's hard to do from a VA hospital bed.

Moving forward from the political posturing is one thing but you make an excellent point about real life and moving on from the after effects being much harder.  You have my prayers.

[Ocklawaha]

Thanks Stephen, Adam and Jeffery... You are correct that it is apparently wide spread among NATO forces and so one can bet it is even more rampant among the weapons supplied by China, North Korea or the former Soviet Bloc. In a protracted war the idea is quite sound, a near miss is as good as a kill making it MUCH easier to kill. The downside of course is long after everybody decides to lay down the weapons and go out to Starbucks, it's still killing. I would be VERY interested in learning the extent and amounts found in the ordinance of the various forces.

As you know Stephen, and as you others have probably guessed I wasn't in the Gulf Wars, however I did manage the little excursion to Southeast Asia before them. We had our own poisons and both myself and my brother-in-law Brian are 'poison.' In fact in a sort of morbidly cheerful note on this weekend, I understand Brian is the longest lived Herbicide Orange (HO) confirmed case and he keeps on trucking.

Just for the story on Memorial Day, Brian, a pilot, flew the Douglas A-1 Skyraider initially with fighter squadron VA 115 out of Jacksonville. These were the last single seat, American made, propeller driven fighters and they actually served from the 1940's well into 1980+.  I never thought the thing would fly especially loaded with ordnance, it always reminded me of a shoebox with wings. The A-1 was a great old plane as tough as nails, and able to take incredible abuse but about as sleek as a brick. We met up a couple of times during the war having enjoyed a great lunch and dinner together in the officers mess of both the Enterprise and the Kitty Hawk.

Brian has one of those weird war story's known to veterans everywhere. In a secret mission dive bombing supply trails in Lao's, he and his 'wingman' (another plane providing support working in pairs) spotted these weird 'white block houses' in the jungle below. They zoomed past a couple of times then Brian hand signaled he was going in for a closer inspection. He said I no sooner got into a steep bank until the entire jungle lit up in a massive display of fireworks. His plane was shattered by Soviet made SAM missiles and as he looked down the jungle floor was crawling with VC and NVA soldiers. The plane was unresponsive and was headed straight down when he pulled the eject handle and the explosion blew him clear of the planes crash path and a few hundred yards downrange from the 'white houses.'  He got a nasty gash on his head when he didn't quite clear the canopy but otherwise he was fine, the worst of it here he is hanging in the air and a couple hundred yards away through the jungle trees several hundred people are shooting at him. Just before he landed in a small clearing, he heard an audible male voice, very calm, very soothing, it simply said; "Brian, don't worry, you are going to be fine." I guess it didn't seem like it to him but lets not forget the wingman who by now had gone into overdrive to blow the hell out of anything and everything around Brian. Brian didn't know it but somehow the clump of brush he dove into had a rather unique shape from the air and the wingman had seen him enter it. Driving back the enemy before long there were a half dozen A-1's chewing up the ground and that's when the Huey helicopters flew in and plucked him from the jungle floor.... 45 minutes in LAOS without a passport!

He was physically falling apart and had been diagnosed with cancer a couple of years after medicine made the HO connection with the disease. He was losing his ability to concentrate and had (don't we all) a horrible time recalling warfare itself. I'm proud to say that in a long car ride back to the desert cabin in Landers CA from LAX I convinced him to come to the VA with me. The whole trip we'd talk a bit, then he'd get excited and try and shut me off with 'I NEVER SAW THE STUFF', 'WE NEVER USED IT' (his unit), 'I HAD NO CONTACT...'  I finally cut him off mid sentence and asked him if he wasn't flying close ground support in the A-1 close to the deck UNDER OUR BOMBER SCREENS?!?  He stopped suddenly and teared up and said something like OMG, I remember we were flying through clouds!  Brian's story is nearing its end, hopefully mine isn't, but I didn't get into the HO... or did I?

[finehoe]

"Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted.   It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

Frantz Fanon

[Tacachale]

Ouch. Well deployed use of Fanon.

[Gunnar]

Thanks Stephen, Adam and Jeffery... You are correct that it is apparently wide spread among NATO forces and so one can bet it is even more rampant among the weapons supplied by China, North Korea or the former Soviet Bloc. In a protracted war the idea is quite sound, a near miss is as good as a kill making it MUCH easier to kill. The downside of course is long after everybody decides to lay down the weapons and go out to Starbucks, it's still killing. I would be VERY interested in learning the extent and amounts found in the ordinance of the various forces.

Even regular ordnance can kill 60+ years later. There's still a lot of unexploded bombs in the ground in Europe and from time to time they explode and injure or kill construction workers or those trying to disarm them. Just today 20,000 people had to be evacuated in Cologne yesterday when an airm mine was found. Fortunately it could be disarmed without causing any damage but that is not always the case. The worst bombs are those with delay timers (that were designed to kill fire and rescue crews a few hours after the actual raid).

[Adam White]

Thanks Stephen, Adam and Jeffery... You are correct that it is apparently wide spread among NATO forces and so one can bet it is even more rampant among the weapons supplied by China, North Korea or the former Soviet Bloc. In a protracted war the idea is quite sound, a near miss is as good as a kill making it MUCH easier to kill. The downside of course is long after everybody decides to lay down the weapons and go out to Starbucks, it's still killing. I would be VERY interested in learning the extent and amounts found in the ordinance of the various forces.

Even regular ordnance can kill 60+ years later. There's still a lot of unexploded bombs in the ground in Europe and from time to time they explode and injure or kill construction workers or those trying to disarm them. Just today 20,000 people had to be evacuated in Cologne yesterday when an airm mine was found. Fortunately it could be disarmed without causing any damage but that is not always the case. The worst bombs are those with delay timers (that were designed to kill fire and rescue crews a few hours after the actual raid).

They found a 110lb bomb in Wembley the other day:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3099043/Moment-110-lb-WWII-bomb-forced-Britain-s-Got-Talent-abandon-rehearsals-threatened-Wembley-play-offs-detonated.html

[finehoe]

The National Security Archive has posted several newly available documents, one of them an account by Charles Duelfer of the search he led in Iraq for weapons of mass destruction, with a staff of 1,700 and the resources of the U.S. military.

Duelfer was appointed by CIA Director George Tenet to lead a massive search after an earlier massive search led by David Kay had determined that there were no WMD stockpiles in Iraq. Duelfer went to work in January 2004, to find nothing for a second time, on behalf of people who had launched a war knowing full well that their own statements about WMDs were not true.

The fact that Duelfer states quite clearly that he found none of the alleged WMD stockpiles cannot be repeated enough, with 42% of Americans (and 51 percent of Republicans) still believing the opposite.

The fact that President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and their team knowingly lied cannot be overemphasized. This group took the testimony of Hussein Kamel regarding weapons he'd said had been destroyed years ago, and used it as if he'd said they currently existed. This team used forged documents to allege a uranium purchase. They used claims about aluminum tubes that had been rejected by all of their own usual experts. They "summarized" a National Intelligence Estimate that said Iraq was unlikely to attack unless attacked to say nearly the opposite in a "white paper" released to the public. Colin Powell took claims to the U.N. that had been rejected by his own staff, and touched them up with fabricated dialogue.

Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Jay Rockefeller concluded that, "In making the case for war, the Administration repeatedly presented intelligence as fact when in reality it was unsubstantiated, contradicted, or even nonexistent."

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/07/cia-no-iraq-wmd/