Dangerous by Design: Jacksonville #4 in Pedestrian Fatalities, 2000 - 2009

[I-10east]

^^^When I walk downtown, I don't feel unsafe. I think that a good safety tip is to be wary of the traffic light patterns (looking up at the traffic lights), regardless if a don't walk sign is there or not; Ideally, of course you want to cross on a fresh red light, and cautiously cross as fast as you can.

One way streets are like Main St are in downtowns all over America, with some cities even worse far as width (national & international). I don't see anything 'unique' or 'challenging to cross' there. That accident in January was unfortunate, but even in the most ideal pedestrian environments something like that could happen, with a driver coming through on a green light.   

[strider]

Gloria used to walk the grandson to school.  She stopped when she realized that they were getting a green light to walk Across Main at the same time the cars were getting a green light to turn left from Tallulah.  And that the timing was such that even almost running, you could only get two thirds of the way across before Main got a green to go.  And go the cars do.  Almost get hit a couple of times and the walking stops.

In today's age of computer controlled everything, it seems like a fail to not program lights to actually do what they are supposed to do - control traffic safely - all traffic, not just the motorized one.  So while it is nice to talk about redoing streets and making things safer by design; doesn't it make more sense to simply do the easy fixes first?  You will never stop the j-walking, the stumbling or the texting drivers. But how can you criticize any of that if you can't even make those doing it right to start with safe?

[Josh]

The City (and State in some cases) lacks the ability to take care of the simple things. It's like the case of the 2 Jewish people hit while crossing San Juan. The fact that the pedestrian walk signal will cycle correctly, but only give you enough time to cross if you actually press the "push to cross" button first is criminal. Someone should have lost their job over that fiasco.

Another case being the need for parking stripes in RA and the people that were protesting Kickback's expansion. If people have blatant disregard for the current system and laws in place, why do we need more? If drivers are constantly blocking driveways, sidewalks, etc, that is a failure on the part of JSO to cite those that are breaking the laws in neighborhoods that everyone knows people are breaking the law in. 

[L.P. Hovercraft]

Most importantly, add the damn bike lanes! 

I'm not a huge fan of bike lanes which, unless they're the physically separated kind like the riverwalk, confine bikers to a narrow little strip of asphalt separated from speeding cars by only a thin wisp of paint like some Orwellian kind of vehicular "free speech zone".  I think Riverside/Avondale is one of the few areas in all of Jax that really doesn't require bike lanes; it's mostly a grid layout of 2 way streets with low speed limits, perfect for vehicular bicycling.  I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.

And as much as it pains me to type this out, JSO seriously needs to be out there more often VISIBLY writing tickets.  Too many people are still cruising through there, obliviously content, upwards of 30mph.  If you're concerned about the average speed increasing after making it 1-way and really want to curb the thoroughfare traffic, make all of the intersections 4-way stops and remove the light from King street.  I don't think the residents would mind and it would keep the a good bit off traffic out of the neighborhood.

Agreed!  JSO could probably pay for several pensions if they simply ticketed the cars speeding down Post or College Streets on an average weekend.

[thelakelander]

I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.

The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/bike death rate.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.

The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/death rate.

Like Lake is saying, though.

When it's just me, I don't really care.  I also ride in traffic on Blanding / US17 / Main St / and every once and a while State & Union.  Make yourself visible.  But that's when I'm by myself.

When I'm with the kids, the dogs or the GF, I stay on the residential roads.  I would really feel better if there was only a 3-4' stripe designating our area as ours if for no other reason, I've seen the kids take a tumble while riding their bikes.  That could be disastrous if it happens in travel lanes.  IMO bike lanes can empower the unexperienced and timid and gives them the courage to stay off of the sidewalk.  The more people on the roads (on bikes) the more accustomed drivers get to sharing the road.  Combine all of the above to raise the overall awareness and you have something really good happening.

I could list plenty of peeves that I see other bikers doing, but in most cases they're doing it because they feel safer.  The needle needs to start moving towards the direction of everyone feeling safe while sharing the same roads.

[thelakelander]

The more people on the roads (on bikes) the more accustomed drivers get to sharing the road.  Combine all of the above to raise the overall awareness and you have something really good happening.

Great point. This is what happened in St. Pete over the last 10-15 years. Once they made a commitment to providing the proper connected network, overall awareness and driver behavior started to change for the better.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.

The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/death rate.

I'm certainly not a professional cyclist by ANY stretch of the imagination, just a guy who would prefer to bike instead of drive if possible, and I always try to take routes that stick to less busy residential streets and avoid any squirrelly intersections or high speed/busy streets, but if one rides using the basic rules of the road (stopping behind the solid line at red lights, not blowing through yellows or stop signs, using hand signals for turning/stopping, yielding right of way when necessary, not riding too close to the parked car door zone, and ALWAYS assuming other vehicles don't see you), I think riding as a vehicular cyclist around a more bike/ped friendly place like Riverside/Avondale is actually a decent place to learn how to bike safely, though I certainly wouldn't choose to ride in the street on a high speed/high traffic road. 

All that said, I usually ride with a helmet, a dorky reflective safety vest, and my front/rear lights on even during the day--I may be a fool riding on the streets of Jax, but I ain't no dummy!

My biggest gripe with plain jane bike lanes is they push the bike rider over to the side of the road where they're less visible to other vehicles and road conditions aren't always the best, while giving just the illusion of safety for the rider.  In a perfect world, we would have a series of dedicated, separated bike paths (paved in gold) connecting the core neighborhoods, but in this era of tax aversion and fiscal austerity, wouldn't sharrows like the ones on Riverside Ave. perform a similar function as painted bike lanes without pushing the biker over to the side of the road where loose gravel and broken glass always seem to congregate?  You're still riding in the street as in bike lanes but now you're more visible to cars making it incumbent on other vehicles to actually share the road with bikes instead of just being an afterthought. 

I just don't see how painting stripes on the street is going to get more beginners to ride on the roads instead of sidewalks (which could end up being even more dangerous), unless the bike lane is the kind physically separated from traffic, like with parked cars on one side and the sidewalk on the other.  It would be cool seeing bike lanes like this around town:

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.

The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/death rate.

I'm certainly not a professional cyclist by ANY stretch of the imagination, just a guy who would prefer to bike instead of drive if possible, and I always try to take routes that stick to less busy residential streets and avoid any squirrelly intersections or high speed/busy streets, but if one rides using the basic rules of the road (stopping behind the solid line at red lights, not blowing through yellows or stop signs, using hand signals for turning/stopping, yielding right of way when necessary, not riding too close to the parked car door zone, and ALWAYS assuming other vehicles don't see you), I think riding as a vehicular cyclist around a more bike/ped friendly place like Riverside/Avondale is actually a decent place to learn how to bike safely, though I certainly wouldn't choose to ride in the street on a high speed/high traffic road. 

All that said, I usually ride with a helmet, a dorky reflective safety vest, and my front/rear lights on even during the day--I may be a fool riding on the streets of Jax, but I ain't no dummy!

My biggest gripe with plain jane bike lanes is they push the bike rider over to the side of the road where they're less visible to other vehicles and road conditions aren't always the best, while giving just the illusion of safety for the rider.  In a perfect world, we would have a series of dedicated, separated bike paths (paved in gold) connecting the core neighborhoods, but in this era of tax aversion and fiscal austerity, wouldn't sharrows like the ones on Riverside Ave. perform a similar function as painted bike lanes without pushing the biker over to the side of the road where loose gravel and broken glass always seem to congregate?  You're still riding in the street as in bike lanes but now you're more visible to cars making it incumbent on other vehicles to actually share the road with bikes instead of just being an afterthought. 

I just don't see how painting stripes on the street is going to get more beginners to ride on the roads instead of sidewalks (which could end up being even more dangerous), unless the bike lane is the kind physically separated from traffic, like with parked cars on one side and the sidewalk on the other.  It would be cool seeing bike lanes like this around town:

I want to respond to this more in depth, but a few quick things:  Hell no to gold paths.  That would be hell when it rains. 

The picture you provided actually hides the bikers from vehicular traffic and does nothing to raise awareness.  The awareness needs to be there to remind ALL drivers that the roads are to be shared.  We don't have to (and shouldn't be) pushed to our own little section away from everything else.  Cars will be turning into and across those hidden lanes just as they do sidewalks....  I want to be seen.  Someone post a pics of the bike lanes on San Jose, those are fantastic, and proof that we're not being pushed to the edge of the gutters with all of the debris. 

The rest of your points regarding safety equipment are spot on. 

[JFman00]

There's no way you could ever convince me to use the unprotected bike lines (where they spottily exist) on Roosevelt. No amount of awareness is going to get me on a bike sharing a lane with cars going 60+.