Aquarium could be coming to Jacksonville?

[thelakelander]

An aquarium is just as unique as a Waffle House or strip mall in the south. We're in for a rude awakening if we believe millions of out of town guest will visit Jax annually specifically to visit an aquarium.

[jaxjaguar]

An aquarium alone would certainly fail, yes. I'm speaking specifically to have it incorporated with everything that's planned for the shipyards (USS Adams, shopping, hotels, businesses, sports facilities, parks, etc). None of those things would be successful on their own, but together they can make a vibrant bustling place to attract visitors.

The aquarium is only a piece of the puzzle.

[menace1069]

The aquarium is only a piece of the puzzle.

I agree.  I don't think that an aquarium alone is gonna do it, but coupled with other new projects in a close proximity it is an added destination.

[thelakelander]

The puzzle isn't so much about new gimmicks to lure tourist downtown. It's really about fixing what's stopping the natural market from taking over. Mostly, the non-sexy stuff. Clean, multimodal streets, reliable transit options, great public spaces, schools, preservation, making sure everything is seamless at the pedestrian scale level, etc. Once we figure out how to address our basics, just about everything else will take care of itself.

[KenFSU]

I completely disagree with the naysayers. If they build something worth visiting and that has a unique attraction people will come.

An aquarium is not a unique attraction. There are more than 100 in the US, and more than a dozen in Florida. Where will people come from? Certainly not from or beyond Tampa, Orlando, or Atlanta, which all have big aquariums. So, the population you are looking at is almost literally just the Jacksonville metro area. No one, literally no one, will come to Jax specifically for an aquarium. They might go to the aquarium if they are already in town, but even that is probably a stretch. What do people come to Jax for? Golfing, the beach, or business. Not much in the way of urban exploring or sightseeing.

Plus, we've already got one prison on Bay Street. Why do we need another (hey-o treehugger!!)?

It's also worth noting that Tampa's aquarium wouldn't survive without million dollar annual subsidies from the city.

[thelakelander]

Hmmm.....I ended up googling this.... Here's what popped up:

Editorial: On 20th anniversary, Florida Aquarium keeps aiming higher

Twenty years after its opening, the Florida Aquarium is refining its identity and enhancing its reputation as its neighborhood in downtown Tampa prepares for a similar transformation. This anniversary is a good time to mark the aquarium's progress and its tremendous potential as Tampa's downtown waterfront continues to grow.

The aquarium opened in 1995 with unrealistic expectations about the number of visitors it would attract and its potential to be a development magnet for the industrial wasteland in the Channel District. The facility worked through the lean years and the early stages when Ybor City's rebirth began to throw a trickle of visitors to the eastern side of downtown. But now it stands as the cornerstone of an upstart residential hub, inside a neighborhood that sports new condos, restaurants, parks and cultural attractions. The aquarium is no longer a lonely sentry on the downtown outpost, but a charter member of a new and exciting community that is about to undergo a billion-dollar makeover.

Taxpayers still spend about $7 million per year on debt service for construction, but the annual operating subsidy has been cut from $1 million a year to $430,000 this year. Still, the aquarium has grown into a signature attraction, drawing close to 13 million visitors since it opened, educating hundreds of thousands of students, serving as a care center for injured sea life and working to promote public awareness of conservation. President and CEO Thom Stork suggests the aquarium's attendance could grow from 750,000 a year to 1 million a year within five years.

Full article: http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-on-20th-anniversary-florida-aquarium-keeps-aiming-higher/2222226

[dp8541]

The puzzle isn't so much about new gimmicks to lure tourist downtown. It's really about fixing what's stopping the natural market from taking over. Mostly, the non-sexy stuff. Clean, multimodal streets, reliable transit options, great public spaces, schools, preservation, making sure everything is seamless at the pedestrian scale level, etc. Once we figure out how to address our basics, just about everything else will take care of itself.

+1

[hiddentrack]

I'm fine having an aquarium on the list of things we want, but I'd put it as a nice-to-have, not a must-have. Something I'd prefer to see in the short term for that area would be to have Metro Park add in the kinds of things we're seeing in Hemming Park. Then take the portions of the Shipyards (after cleanup, of course) that aren't being developed right away, and make it a requirement that rather than leaving them as construction-sites-in-waiting, carve out some nice temporary park spaces that provide a connection between Metro Park and downtown that doesn't involve the sidewalks on Bay Street. A nice stretch of connected parks along the river would probably be a nice (and hopefully low cost) draw.

[ProjectMaximus]

The puzzle isn't so much about new gimmicks to lure tourist downtown. It's really about fixing what's stopping the natural market from taking over. Mostly, the non-sexy stuff. Clean, multimodal streets, reliable transit options, great public spaces, schools, preservation, making sure everything is seamless at the pedestrian scale level, etc. Once we figure out how to address our basics, just about everything else will take care of itself.

I find most of that stuff quite sexy. 

[mtraininjax]

An aquarium is just as unique as a Waffle House or strip mall in the south. We're in for a rude awakening if we believe millions of out of town guest will visit Jax annually specifically to visit an aquarium.

+1

[RattlerGator]

Hmmm.....I ended up googling this.... Here's what popped up:

Editorial: On 20th anniversary, Florida Aquarium keeps aiming higher

Twenty years after its opening, the Florida Aquarium is refining its identity and enhancing its reputation as its neighborhood in downtown Tampa prepares for a similar transformation. This anniversary is a good time to mark the aquarium's progress and its tremendous potential as Tampa's downtown waterfront continues to grow.

The aquarium opened in 1995 with unrealistic expectations about the number of visitors it would attract and its potential to be a development magnet for the industrial wasteland in the Channel District. The facility worked through the lean years and the early stages when Ybor City's rebirth began to throw a trickle of visitors to the eastern side of downtown. But now it stands as the cornerstone of an upstart residential hub, inside a neighborhood that sports new condos, restaurants, parks and cultural attractions. The aquarium is no longer a lonely sentry on the downtown outpost, but a charter member of a new and exciting community that is about to undergo a billion-dollar makeover.

Taxpayers still spend about $7 million per year on debt service for construction, but the annual operating subsidy has been cut from $1 million a year to $430,000 this year. Still, the aquarium has grown into a signature attraction, drawing close to 13 million visitors since it opened, educating hundreds of thousands of students, serving as a care center for injured sea life and working to promote public awareness of conservation. President and CEO Thom Stork suggests the aquarium's attendance could grow from 750,000 a year to 1 million a year within five years.

Full article: http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-on-20th-anniversary-florida-aquarium-keeps-aiming-higher/2222226

Tremendous potential? 20 years in? Potential ! ? ! Looking at a couple of their annual reports, they're also clearly getting more money from government. That 430k is just from the City of Tampa; Hillsborough County *and* their Tourism Council *and* the State of Florida are all contributing thousands of additional dollars.

From the purview of local and state governments, something of a modified loss-leader concept introduces new activity (via roads, enterprise zones or specific businesses) to push new customers to a service, product or district in the hope of building a greater commercial base and thereby securing future recurring revenue for the commercial entities as well as taxable income for the local and state governments.

Right?

So, another suburban way to read that article is through this heading: On 20th anniversary, Florida Aquarium keeps struggling to meet initial expectations -- which is the deal with many major projects, urban *and* suburban. Projects that have to be conceptually thought through as a loss-leader activity. Whether we're talking about road projects or aquariums or whatever. Twenty years in Tampa and they are hoping, HOPING, to grow from 750k attendance per year up to 999k or more but they've averaged only 650k per year. As the article admitted, that's well below what they promised. But, still, it is a "signature" attraction and it has no doubt contributed to the billion-dollar development being undertaken in downtown Tampa.

Did they "lie" about their projected numbers (in the sense that folks are insisting lies have been used on behalf of the First Coast Expressway)  in order to get the project built in their urban core, hmmmmm?

As for the Jacksonville Aquarium, arguing in our favor is the fact that Tampa doesn't have I-95 rolling through their downtown, and their river simply doesn't provide the view afforded by the Saint Johns. Put an entertainment district down on the river that has visual appeal from the interstate (aircraft carrier, marina, promenade, etc.) and you will pull in visitors. Yes, everyone it seems has an aquarium. But people still like them and will visit them -- especially in an entertainment and event district.

Our key is to have a premier "event" district, and luckily we already do. It's just limited to mostly sports right now. An arena, a baseball park, a bland public park, and a professional football stadium. Shad is going to fix that, I do believe. Add in a Northbank Riverwalk that extends from Memorial Park in Riverside to The Shipyards and we'll be well on our way.

[thelakelander]

Did they "lie" about their projected numbers (in the sense that folks are insisting lies have been used on behalf of the First Coast Expressway)  in order to get the project built in their urban core, hmmmmm?

Historically, proponents tend to cook (or over-estimate) projections on iffy projects to get them built. Florida Aquarium, First Coast Expressway, JTA Skyway, etc. are all examples. Location....urban, suburban, or rural, doesn't really matter.

[TimmyB]

If I can offer an "outsider" opinion: we have selected Jax as our destination when we retire from teaching in two years.  It is an awesome town to visit, and looks like a great place for us to live.  However,...

Nearly every time we say to our friends that we are moving to Jacksonville, (young, old, married, single, kids, no kids,...doesn't matter) their response is, "Where is that in Florida?"  Seriously, it is not a destination for any demographic.  Families are going to Orlando, 20-somethings are going to the gulf coast, childless couples are going to Miami or the Keys, etc. 

This is actually one of the things we like most about the area.  It is a great city, with a convenient airport, great beaches, amazing recreational opportunities, lots of room to grow, etc., and yet it is not cluttered with thousand of tourists who couldn't care less about the locals' quality of life.

I am not saying don't build it; I am not saying build it.  What I AM saying is, it is going to take a lot more than an aquarium to make people come to Jacksonville, especially when there are already spectacular ones within five hours of there.

[IrvAdams]

^^good points, well put. I think the city will do well, however, focusing on its strong points by bringing the USS Adams to downtown. Jacksonville has a long and storied history with the Navy.

[menace1069]

I am not saying don't build it; I am not saying build it.  What I AM saying is, it is going to take a lot more than an aquarium to make people come to Jacksonville, especially when there are already spectacular ones within five hours of there.

This line is perfect.