SunTrust Tower Sold for $31.1 Million

[Tacachale]

What's really sad is that this is one of the very few Downtown projects that Brown can really put his stamp on, and it's an out and out boondoggle.

[fieldafm]

^Like the Brooklyn developments, the garage dates back before the Brown administration.

To illustrate this, look at the original ordinance.  Its 2011.  The year Brown was getting elected.  He didn't take office till afterwards.

Whoa, let's back up here. The entire fiasco happened during the Brown administration. It was well into 2012 when this deal finally went to DDRB and didn't even get sent to Council until 2013.

SEVERAL COJ employees during this time (myself and Doug Skiles were the public voices pushing a better product on this from the beginning) told me that Mayor Brown left no doubt to COJ employees that this garage would need to be built no matter what. They pushed through the elimination of retail and they were the ones that shifted money from Sleiman Enterprises failed request to buy the Enterprise Center parking facility (that was Peyton's last F-U towards Sleiman as he was leaving office) thereby raiding the money that had been set aside to settle a decades long commitment to provide dedicated Landing parking. The mayoral administration also pushed through the elimination of the clawback provision (further screwing over taxpayers). Let's not make the Mayor's office out to be the hero in this situation. They are far from it.

The old Kuhn parking-garage deal was dead long ago. The newest Parador-specific redevelopment deal, the new garage (that couldn't be expanded vertically-like the old proposal) and the new subsidization-scheme was all done during Brown's term. Frankly, trying to absolve the Brown administration from this fiasco is insulting.

Most definitely. The process was not so far along that the whole thing couldn't have been fixed by Brown's administration, but instead, they added even more egregious problems. The buck stops there.

meh.  no one is 'absolving' anyone of anything, and there is very little reason to whip yourselves up into an ungainly hysteria about it.

The point was made that this fiasco, like the successful developments on Riverside were started before the Alvin Brown administration.

Unless you have a time machine that can go back and change the inherent truth of that, then Im frankly not sure what you are working yourself up into fits over.

I went back in my time machine and didn't see you taking personal time off work to stand up against this bad deal... So pardon me for my 'ungainly hysteria' when you try to rewrite history. Didn't you take a paid position to work on the Brown campaign?

Barton's idea was to use the money and dedicate about 40% of the garage for the Landing (still a bad idea, but at least the money would have went towards what it was originally earmarked for- solving a DECADES long obligation to the Landing). Barton was then fired by the Mayor. That's when this latest scheme was cooked up. This current boondoggle was way worse than anything proposed before. And the Mayor's office pushed this deal through. I am 100% certain of this, because I was told that by several COJ employees and advised to keep my mouth shut as I was fighting a losing battle because the directive had come straight from the top. Considering I was one of the lone voices against this deal, this is my first hand account of the wheeling and dealings of Parador's taxpayer-subsidized gift. That gift included no retail, no Landing parking, a structure that could not be expanded vertically in the future and no taxpayer protection in the inevitable sale of the building. Believe me, it was a lonely feeling speaking out against this fiasco (and still is). Also, inexplicably Brown's administration failed to bring home a deal to move Advanced Disposal's headquarters to the Suntrust Building (they instead moved to Nocatee, meaning a major homegrown business is now located in St Johns County).

um  mike.   apparently your time machine has a few settings off.

I don't have to take off work to oppose something, because this is what I actually do, and if you would stop fiddling around with your time machine and read back on the posting history, you will remember that you and doug skiles had the full back up of this board at the time.  If you crank that time machine up and go a little further back you might even remember that we've been preaching against the overstock of parking in the downtown since before you actually started posting here, and did the early work showing just how corrupt and badly managed the parking garage situation in our urban core is.

Im not sure why you are so angry about all this, but directing it at me is a little misplaced.  And it still doesn't change the fact that the beginnings of this wholly typical fiasco in the design and implementation of yet another parking garage go back before the Brown Administration.

And for that matter, I don't see how it differs that greatly from any of the parking structures erected under John Delaney or Ed Austin.

If the time machine you've been having such trouble with can manage it, it might tell you that my loft at 47 Duval was torn down in 2001 in order to make way for another fairly useless and mismanaged garage across from the new library.  It still doesn't have ground floor retail, is largely unfilled, not open at night most of the time, and isn't able to be built up, despite the design guidelines put in place by the Downtown Design Review Board.

The same review board that approved the present garage.

Is John Delaney a rat bastard because downtown is owned and mismanaged by a bunch of parking kingpins?  I don't think so.

Again, Im not sure why your anger on this is directed towards me, but Im not the enemy and Im pretty sure that in a competition of 'who hates the parking garage shenanigans more', you would probably lose to me very badly.  If you need me to help out the busted time machine or even just your memory a bit by filling this thread with the (literal) volumes of posts on the subject of parking, parking garages, policy, lack of street connectivity, and the failures of the DDRB, I will be glad to do so.

However.  It doesn't retroactively make Alvin Brown's mayorship begin any sooner.

We can debate bad deals made during Jake Goldbold's, Ed Austin's, Tommy Hazzouri's, John Delaney's and John Peyton's administration in seperate threads. Neither of them had anything to do with this specific deal.

Absconcing this administration from this bad deal because John Peyton and Tony Sleiman had an ongoing family feud that resulted in John Barton (who Brown fired) suggesting alternatives to solving the Landing's parking problem is ridiculous. By the time THIS administration cooked up THIS Parador parking garage deal, Barton was long gone. So, in fact, bringing up names like John Delaney or a building you lived within over 15 years ago in this thread is a straw man's argument.

Im not sure why your anger on this is directed towards me

It's supremely offensive that you are trying to absolve the current administration from this fiasco.

No.  But nice implication there, Mike.

That's not what you told me one night at Three Layers back in 2011 after Brown made the runoff.

[fieldafm]

So, because I typed too fast and autocorrect changed absolve to absconce-while replacing Ron with John... is further proof in your eyes that the current administration didn't have anything to do with screwing over taxpayers and creating permanent dead space on prime donwtown real estate?

[strider]

This has indeed turned into a pretty senseless argument.  This:

Bill Type and Number: Ordinance 2014-549

Introducer/Sponsor(s): Council President at the request of the Mayor

Date of Introduction: August 12, 2014

Says it all to me.  While the garage deal was indeed in place before Mayor Brown, it seems like the only good part was removed AT HIS REQUEST.  Shared responsibility at best.   Enriching someone else at the expense of us taxpayers?  Typical and expected.


What is truly sad is we are most likely facing at least another four years of this regardless of which mayoral candidate gets elected.

[Tacachale]

^Yes, the bottom line is, if Brown had left the previous deal alone, it would have been better than it is. Instead, he ensured that even worse elements were added and we're left with this mess. And this garage is his Brown's one tangible contribution to Downtown.

[fieldafm]

^Yes, the bottom line is, if Brown had left the previous deal alone, it would have been better than it is. Instead, he ensured that even worse elements were added and we're left with this mess. And this garage is his Brown's one tangible contribution to Downtown.

Other than empowering citizen led events like One Spark, Friends of Hemming Park and the things that finally started working after 35 years of downtown boondoggles, of course.

Well, now the BS is really getting thick.

[Tacachale]

^Yes, the bottom line is, if Brown had left the previous deal alone, it would have been better than it is. Instead, he ensured that even worse elements were added and we're left with this mess. And this garage is his Brown's one tangible contribution to Downtown.

Other than empowering citizen led events like One Spark, Friends of Hemming Park and the things that finally started working after 35 years of downtown boondoggles, of course.

Well, now the BS is really getting thick.

Ha! And how can we forget the Jazz Festival he invented and perfected, all by himself?

[fieldafm]

lol.  he does have a problem putting his name all over everything.  But empowering citizens to do their own thing downtown is something that many of us on this site actually worked to help make happen, Field included.

Snark aside, pretending that the good things the administration has done were imaginary isn't very convincing.

Under Brown's administration, hosting special events has been harder... not easier. Period. You should probably speak to the people that are actually on the ground doing the work instead of reading the press releases.

[fieldafm]

ONE Spark was simply not possible during the previous administrations.

Yes, because the City never hosted something like say.... the Super Bowl.

Bottom line, and I'm pretty qualified to make this claim, it was easier to host events under the previous administration.

[acme54321]

ONE Spark was simply not possible during the previous administrations.

Yes, because the City never hosted something like say.... the Super Bowl.

Bottom line, and I'm pretty qualified to make this claim, it was easier to host events under the previous administration.

Truth.

[Tacachale]

ONE Spark was simply not possible during the previous administrations.

Yes, because the City never hosted something like say.... the Super Bowl.

Bottom line, and I'm pretty qualified to make this claim, it was easier to host events under the previous administration.

Bottom line.  You are incorrect.

Last time I checked, Superbowl wasn't an ongoing citizen led effort Mike.

Are you sure that you wouldn't like to claim the previous administrations also facilitated special events like the turn of the Millennium?  I mean, without the fabled backup of administrations that you don't personally remember, however would the city have successfully experienced Y2K?  And therefore, you know: Straw man.  Ipso facto. QED.?

You can compare apples to oranges, parse the words however you like, vent at me, call me names, accuse the mayor of screwing the taxpayers or any other hysterical thing that might occur to you today, but it doesn't change the fact that the Brown Administration, for the first time in the long sad failed history of Downtown Redevelopment---has finally allowed for citizens to take ownership of what happens downtown and that has made the difference.

Mike is right on the money. The city is much harder to work with than it has been in a very long time. And as far as city events go, we  actually had a great office of special events for a long time. But then Brown fired them all.

[simms3]

This has indeed turned into a pretty senseless argument.  This:

Bill Type and Number: Ordinance 2014-549

Introducer/Sponsor(s): Council President at the request of the Mayor

Date of Introduction: August 12, 2014

Says it all to me.  While the garage deal was indeed in place before Mayor Brown, it seems like the only good part was removed AT HIS REQUEST.  Shared responsibility at best.   Enriching someone else at the expense of us taxpayers?  Typical and expected.


What is truly sad is we are most likely facing at least another four years of this regardless of which mayoral candidate gets elected.

8 more years if the white guy is elected.  Elect Brown and keep it to 4 so in the meantime we can hope and pray that someone who isn't a state politician and actually cares about running the city can run a decent campaign.

[MEGATRON]

I suppose we have conceded that the Parador Parking misadventure, like the successful developments in Brooklyn actually began before the Brown Administration then?

And while he presided over both, it would be simple minded to solely blame or credit him for either?

Since, you know....that was the original point.

Seems pretty clear to me that the Brown administration took the Parador deal, what was already a bad deal for the City, and made it into an even worse deal.

[Tacachale]

I suppose we have conceded that the Parador Parking misadventure, like the successful developments in Brooklyn actually began before the Brown Administration then?

And while he presided over both, it would be simple minded to solely blame or credit him for either?

Since, you know....that was the original point.

Seems pretty clear to me that the Brown administration took the Parador deal, what was already a bad deal for the City, and made it into an even worse deal.

Yeah. Brown inherited a bad deal, and rather than fixing it, or just leaving it alone, he succeeded in making it a terrible one. Unfortunately, it's a pattern.

[simms3]

From a super distance, Brown actually doesn't seem to have a lot of intelligence.  Just going off of brief clips of him speaking, and knowledge of a few decisions he has made.  Like Brown really doesn't seem to have much variation off of a solid average 100 IQ.  Am I out of line for saying this?  Also feels like Brown lets others make decisions for him and he can't manage people's conflicts of interest so weird decisions like this Parador garage fiasco happen (case in point, Stephen's post - even a decent politician can figure out a way to make everyone happy, and a shrewd business oriented mayor can do even more).  Basically, it feels like we have a Joe the Plumber running a city of nearly a million people.