$75 Million Lawsuit Filed Against COJ and JEA

[Metro Jacksonville]

$75 Million Lawsuit Filed Against COJ and JEA



The City of Jacksonville and the Jacksonville Electric Authority (JEA) are being sued for $75 million by water savings technology company Fluid Dynamics. The suit charges the City and JEA with defamation, libel, slander and tortuous interference.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-mar-75-million-lawsuit-filed-against-coj-and-jea

[Intuition Ale Works]

This explains a lot.
We were in the process of getting one of the Fluid Dynamics units installed at the brewery then their sales rep went silent.
It would have saved us a lot of money because of the large amount of water we use.

[Kay]

What are they thinking? If they sell to you it hurts the case?

[spuwho]

Cant help fund a pension liability if you sell less water to the constituency.

There is more to this it appears behind the scenes. I wonder if JEA/COJ has to put this out for bid of some kind.

Or they want to charge a "fee" to have it hooked up to make up for the reduced water flow.

What if Bacardi, InBev (Budweiser) and the other Top 100 industrial water consumers all used this technology?

Thats a major drop in revenue.

[Intuition Ale Works]

It definitely reduces JEA revenue.

The concept behind the technology is the it removes air in the water before it hits the meter.

We all pay for water and the air in it.

I remember the sales rep specifically saying JEA was cool with it and they had/were installing a unit at the large Goodwill complex on Lenox?.

[mbwright]

Anything that reduces the income stream is bad, in their view.  Conserve, and use less water and electricity, we'll jack your rates higher, so we get the same, or more revenue.  If there is air in the lines, going through the meters, then we are paying for air, which is not correct.

[PeeJayEss]

Soo....it doesn't actually reduce water consumption (not sure how it would), it just eliminates water from the system so that your meter gives a reading that is more accurate (and 15-25% lower)? That's what I'm getting. I'm assuming this system is placed on JEA's side of the meter.

I'm sure the utility knows the efficiency of their water delivery system, and rates are set accordingly. If they were able to increase the efficiency, thereby dropping the reading on every meter, there would be a corresponding rate increase to account for that. The trouble would be if some locations have this system installed and others do not. Do you have two different rates? Or do you need to come up with a better water meter?

Forgive me if I am getting the physics of this system wrong, but it seems that you won't be reducing your water consumption (your brewing needs won't change just because your pipes are more efficient?), you will just be paying less for what you use? Or paying the same for higher consumption.

So if it doesn't reduce actual consumption of water, I don't see the incentive for JEA or COJ to be interested. Sounds like it just lowers the water bill of the users that can afford to install the system.

[GatorNation]

The lawsuit was filed 4 months ago . . . and the "news story" here is actually a press release issued by Fluid Dynamics.  Makes one wonder how strong their legal position is if they need to resort to trying their case in the press.  And, no, I'm not affiliated with any of the parties to the lawsuit.  Just making an observation that press releases are designed to persuade, not inform 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Soo....it doesn't actually reduce water consumption (not sure how it would), it just eliminates water from the system so that your meter gives a reading that is more accurate (and 15-25% lower)? That's what I'm getting. I'm assuming this system is placed on JEA's side of the meter.

I'm sure the utility knows the efficiency of their water delivery system, and rates are set accordingly. If they were able to increase the efficiency, thereby dropping the reading on every meter, there would be a corresponding rate increase to account for that. The trouble would be if some locations have this system installed and others do not. Do you have two different rates? Or do you need to come up with a better water meter?

Forgive me if I am getting the physics of this system wrong, but it seems that you won't be reducing your water consumption (your brewing needs won't change just because your pipes are more efficient?), you will just be paying less for what you use? Or paying the same for higher consumption.

So if it doesn't reduce actual consumption of water, I don't see the incentive for JEA or COJ to be interested. Sounds like it just lowers the water bill of the users that can afford to install the system.

I'm with you on this one. 

But because 100 gal is 100 gal....  What if the test results of this system proves that we are all getting charged for using 115 to 120 gal?

The can of worms that will be opened would be astronomical and I'm not quite sure how JEA would be able to get out of it?  Rebating all of their customers how far back for improper billing?  WOW!

[spuwho]

If JEA water has a 10% aeration rate, that means for every 100 gallons of water your meter detected, you actually only get 90 gallons after the aeration is removed.

After Fluid Dynamics takes the air out, you still get 100 gallons, but now JEA has to send you more water to make up for aeration losses. And since it is before the meter, JEA loses out on the revenue of the addtional water they normally would bill for. In this case a little less than 110 gallons worth.

So JEA has to send 110 gallons of water now and can only bill for 100.

JEA expenses go up to deliver what is (too them) less water.

As I noted above, this is a boon for industrial water users.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

If JEA water has a 10% aeration rate, that means for every 100 gallons of water your meter detected, you actually only get 90 gallons after the aeration is removed.

After Fluid Dynamics takes the air out, you still get 100 gallons, but now JEA has to send you more water to make up for aeration losses. And since it is before the meter, JEA loses out on the revenue of the addtional water they normally would bill for. In this case a little less than 110 gallons worth.

So JEA has to send 110 gallons of water now and can only bill for 100.

JEA expenses go up to deliver what is (too them) less water.

As I noted above, this is a boon for industrial water users.

Goes back to the point I'm trying to make, though, and to the poster that asked, "Why use media?"

Because this could easily be spun as fraudulent billing.  Not quite as bad as rigging meters, but still knowingly charging for less than you're supplying. 

Should be interesting.

[spuwho]

JEA could just install their own bulk aeration management system. Avoid Fluid Dynamics completely. They just havent been motivated to do so.

Its possible Fluid Dynamics has that and the press release/lawsuit is to force their hand.

If there are no other vendors who can do what FD does, then the lawsuit is to force a sales opportunity.

[camarocane]

If JEA water has a 10% aeration rate, that means for every 100 gallons of water your meter detected, you actually only get 90 gallons after the aeration is removed.

After Fluid Dynamics takes the air out, you still get 100 gallons, but now JEA has to send you more water to make up for aeration losses. And since it is before the meter, JEA loses out on the revenue of the addtional water they normally would bill for. In this case a little less than 110 gallons worth.

So JEA has to send 110 gallons of water now and can only bill for 100.

JEA expenses go up to deliver what is (too them) less water.

As I noted above, this is a boon for industrial water users.

Id like to know how this thing works, does it use a compressor to force the air out? Water pressure? it would be interesting to see if JEA has a published aeration rate, if so the fraudulent billing argument might be a moot point.

Regardless, isn't there a $200k cap on what JEA or COJ can be sued for?

[civil42806]

It definitely reduces JEA revenue.

The concept behind the technology is the it removes air in the water before it hits the meter.

We all pay for water and the air in it.

I remember the sales rep specifically saying JEA was cool with it and they had/were installing a unit at the large Goodwill complex on Lenox?.

Took me a while to try and figure this out too.  There website is horrible at least on my browser.  Does anyone have any idea the percentage of air in JEA's water.  The press release is a red flag in my mind also.  From the description in the press release, it sounds like that the right hand in JEA may not have been aware of what the left hand was doing.

[CutterJ]

What does this system cost to have installed and what is the estimated payback period? Is it only for large water users or can the system be installed on residential properties?

If the system requires electrical power to operate a compressor then are you ultimately saving money by installing it?