The Last Days of LaVilla

[spuwho]

Wow this is insane! I had no idea just how much they destroyed. I could imagine that today this district would have been full of renovation because old warehouse and multi-use space are so hot. Who knows, maybe Intuition or Bold City would have decided to set up shop in LaVilla instead of Riverside. It's a shame.

And this is the exact formula of the demolition based 'revitalization' schemes.  Main Street in Springfield is another great example of lots of spaces that were torn down. leaving little fabric to rebuild on.

What happened on 8th Street is a crying shame.  More than 60 % of the commercial spaces destroyed.  Its literally crippled the intersection of 8th and Main which was literally the busiest intersection the the region once upon a time.

This is why the urban planners, the urbanists, the new urbanists and the historic restoration groups are having such conniptions about the quasi legal demotions that are upcoming.

It makes it worse that these harebrained policies were concocted in the pea brains of grubby medium market real estate speculators trying to figure out how to make a quick buck flipping properties by cleansing a neighborhood of poor (mostly black) people.

OK, the buildings are gone, the poor are gone. Who made the quick buck? The lots are still vacant. Still lots of slabs.

Also, say this stuff didn't get torn down. What would have gone there to revitalize? How long would they have stood vacant until someone did?

Not trying to argue, who in the 1990's would have made an investment in maintaining LaVilla?

[thelakelander]

Probably half of those art studios, bars and restaurants on King Street. A good portion of those business owners attempted to find suitable space in DT before turning to King Street. However, King Street had something that downtown lost. smaller affordable and available buildings.  Pretty much what was left in LaVilla before the demolition party started. Unfortunately for Jax, the big movement across the country in rediscovering and reinvesting in neighborhoods like LaVilla came a few years after we took LaVilla out.

[vicupstate]

Probably half of those art studios, bars and restaurants on King Street. A good portion of those business owners attempted to find suitable space in DT before turning to King Street. However, King Street had something that downtown lost. smaller affordable and available buildings.  Pretty much what was left in LaVilla before the demolition party started. Unfortunately for Jax, the big movement across the country in rediscovering and reinvesting in neighborhoods like LaVilla came a few years after we took LaVilla out.

+1

[spuwho]

The 2 economic engines that fed LaVilla was railroads and manufacturing.

Railroads declined in the 60's and local manufacturing moved out in the 80's.

To support an arts district there has to an economy strong enough to foster such an outgrowth or a political structure that has the long term will to see it through to its new purpose.

I dont think greater Jacksonville had either.

With all the slabs and vacant lots its easy to rue what could have been, but if we truly would like to it reborn, now is the time to impress its future on our leadership. There is still time to transform into something more remarkable than a chapter in a history book.

[thelakelander]

The 2 economic engines that fed LaVilla was railroads and manufacturing.

Railroads declined in the 60's and local manufacturing moved out in the 80's.

The same can be said of Tampa's Ybor and Channel Districts, Portland's Pearl District, Denver's LoDo, Richmond's Shockoe Bottom, New Orleans' Warehouse District, Nashville's Gulch, etc.

To support an arts district there has to an economy strong enough to foster such an outgrowth or a political structure that has the long term will to see it through to its new purpose.

I dont think greater Jacksonville had either.

You asked for potential uses, I just listed a few. The list of similar revitalized districts mentioned above aren't all focused around art. Some are bonefide residential loft and apartment districts now. Others across the country have become places for technology and small incubator hubs. Then there are others anchored around markets and wholesale businesses, such as Detroit's Eastern Market area. Cities and their neighborhoods tend to evolve naturally. Destroying the infrastructure to that allows that process to organically continue typically leads to failure. LaVilla is a good local example of that.

With all the slabs and vacant lots its easy to rue what could have been, but if we truly would like to it reborn, now is the time to impress its future on our leadership. There is still time to transform into something more remarkable than a chapter in a history book.

Along the same lines, use LaVilla as an example to learn from so we don't repeat the past. Use these images to finally kill excuses of what Jax can't become. What we've lost (walkability, beautiful iconic architecture, mixed-use, density, fixed transit, etc.) pretty shows we already had what many seek today. Cherish what we have left and strive to add without taking out the surviving authentic Jax context to truly establish a unique sense of place. Move forward instead of dancing in circles.

[spuwho]

I am familiar with some of those areas you list. I am probably more familiar with the constant renewal that takes place in a city like Chicago.

Neighborhoods that were once prominently Polish, Greek, Italian, or German have become Vietnamese, Puerto Rican, Bosnian and Middle Eastern.  The economy was such that there was always someone in tge wings to move in to the inexpensive vacant buildings as the neighborhood transforned.

However, I dont think the economy in Jacksonville is strong enough to support such types of turnover. The jobs these ethnic groups would seek just arent available. Transit options for those who consider it dont exist in the same forms. This makes it extremely difficult for those at that economic level to consider it.

I hate to bring it up, but this may be inline with some concepts Stephen has brought up with disciminatory zoning and demolition policies so the city doesnt have to deal with ethnicity in any form, period.

They would collectively rather have a vacant slab with little tax value, then to deal with the social issues that arise when a neighborhood begins to transform.

I still think COJ should collect those empty lots and work on a master dev agreement for a new LaVilla that provides all of those characteristics you describe.

That requires developers who have experience developing in urban environments, something we lack.

[thelakelander]

I am familiar with some of those areas you list. I am probably more familiar with the constant renewal that takes place in a city like Chicago.

Neighborhoods that were once prominently Polish, Greek, Italian, or German have become Vietnamese, Puerto Rican, Bosnian and Middle Eastern.  The economy was such that there was always someone in tge wings to move in to the inexpensive vacant buildings as the neighborhood transforned.

However, I dont think the economy in Jacksonville is strong enough to support such types of turnover. The jobs these ethnic groups would seek just arent available. Transit options for those who consider it dont exist in the same forms. This makes it extremely difficult for those at that economic level to consider it.

I don't view Jax's economy has being vastly different from most peer cities of similar economic nature and post WWII growth. Our outcome has more to do with public policy than any single ethnic group. Our built environment is a result of public policy and infrastructure investments we decide to make locally. 

There's no reason what happened in Ybor in the 1990s and Riverside's King Street over the last decade could not have happened in LaVilla. These are places that came back through the risk and investments of small urban pioneers (something happening in the Elbow now). Big developers came after the pioneers had already set in....(well King Street still lacks big development money). Urban pioneers typically can't afford to build from the ground up.  However, they can create a small loft project, art studio, start up company, coffeehouse, etc. Unfortunately, ridding ourselves of the infrastructure that falls within their budgets, reduces the possibility of such a movement taking place in and around downtown. This is partially why after 40 years of DT redevelopment schemes, we're still talking about how to redevelop the same piece of dirt.

I hate to bring it up, but this may be inline with some concepts Stephen has brought up with disciminatory zoning and demolition policies so the city doesnt have to deal with ethnicity in any form, period.

They would collectively rather have a vacant slab with little tax value, then to deal with the social issues that arise when a neighborhood begins to transform.

I partially agree here. Underlying racial issues have been mixed into several local policies created over the later half of the 20th century. However, as far as LaVilla goes, I don't think our officials at the time wanted to deal with anything there, transformation or not. However, Diane Melendez knows a lot more than I do about the downfall of LaVilla. She was in the middle of the fight to attempt to stop it from happening. Maybe she can chime in at some point with her experience of how and why things turned out the way they did?

[UNFurbanist]

If I were king for a day I'd put these all along that vacant lot between Water st. and Bay st. near the convention center. Partnering with JaxPort and getting some discounted shipping containers to turn them into affordable apartments and retail space would be awesome. It could be a really hip new look for Jax that even pays some homage to us being a river city and the importance of our port. Could be really cool!

There are so many awesome uses for these things!

[mtraininjax]

However, King Street had something that downtown lost. smaller affordable and available buildings.

Its not the buildings that sustain King Street, its the residents. LaVilla is a ghost town, Brooklyn has been so as well, but will do well to have the residents at 220 Riverside and other apartments, otherwise you'd be a damn fool to invest anything in Brooklyn without residents supporting it.

I actually like some of the businesses on Main Street in Springfield and its obvious others in Springfield do too, but its the neighborhood that has to support the commercial. A lot of people downtown are making BIG gambles and are expecting events to bail out their night and weekend softness. Its a helluva gamble when there are so few residential projects downtown.

A friend of mine who works with a large local franchise said that 10,000 new residents and many families could do wonders to drive more opportunities downtown, but it lacks in people to support after hours and on weekends. The Mayor the Council, they need to offer more incentives for living downtown, until then, LaVilla and other neighborhoods will remain destitute. 3000 people living in what is called downtown is really nothing and little has really changed since the Super Bowl in terms of residential progress.

[Gunnar]

I am familiar with some of those areas you list. I am probably more familiar with the constant renewal that takes place in a city like Chicago.

Neighborhoods that were once prominently Polish, Greek, Italian, or German have become Vietnamese, Puerto Rican, Bosnian and Middle Eastern.  The economy was such that there was always someone in tge wings to move in to the inexpensive vacant buildings as the neighborhood transforned.

However, I dont think the economy in Jacksonville is strong enough to support such types of turnover. The jobs these ethnic groups would seek just arent available. Transit options for those who consider it dont exist in the same forms. This makes it extremely difficult for those at that economic level to consider it.

I hate to bring it up, but this may be inline with some concepts Stephen has brought up with disciminatory zoning and demolition policies so the city doesnt have to deal with ethnicity in any form, period.

They would collectively rather have a vacant slab with little tax value, then to deal with the social issues that arise when a neighborhood begins to transform.

I still think COJ should collect those empty lots and work on a master dev agreement for a new LaVilla that provides all of those characteristics you describe.

That requires developers who have experience developing in urban environments, something we lack.

So are you saying that while there was no clientel to rehab / reuse the existing (cheap) building stock there would be to buy / rent expensive new one in the same area with the same transportation issues - why ?

I could see  why gentrification would happen in an existing (run down) downtown - cool buildings at rock bottom prices. However why - after almost everything is torn down - someone would invest lots of money to build new buildings in that area....

I think one of the advantages of old buildings (besides already being there) - especially the warehouse types - is that you wouldn't or couldn't build something similar nowadays simply for cost reasons (and in some cases the materials may not even be available in the same quality)

[thelakelander]

However, King Street had something that downtown lost. smaller affordable and available buildings.

Its not the buildings that sustain King Street, its the residents. LaVilla is a ghost town, Brooklyn has been so as well, but will do well to have the residents at 220 Riverside and other apartments, otherwise you'd be a damn fool to invest anything in Brooklyn without residents supporting it.

I actually like some of the businesses on Main Street in Springfield and its obvious others in Springfield do too, but its the neighborhood that has to support the commercial. A lot of people downtown are making BIG gambles and are expecting events to bail out their night and weekend softness. Its a helluva gamble when there are so few residential projects downtown.

A friend of mine who works with a large local franchise said that 10,000 new residents and many families could do wonders to drive more opportunities downtown, but it lacks in people to support after hours and on weekends. The Mayor the Council, they need to offer more incentives for living downtown, until then, LaVilla and other neighborhoods will remain destitute. 3000 people living in what is called downtown is really nothing and little has really changed since the Super Bowl in terms of residential progress.

LaVilla is a ghost town because we kicked the residents out to tear down and redevelop their neighborhood. This has hurt as well. Move thousands of people out and that's less people to support the businesses that were downtown and in surrounding neighborhoods.  With that said, much of the stuff on King Street isn't reliant on Riverside. King has become a regional destination. Those breweries and CoRK are there because of the availability of cheap warehouse space. Basically the same building type that used to exist on West Bay and Forsyth Streets.

[spuwho]

I am familiar with some of those areas you list. I am probably more familiar with the constant renewal that takes place in a city like Chicago.

Neighborhoods that were once prominently Polish, Greek, Italian, or German have become Vietnamese, Puerto Rican, Bosnian and Middle Eastern.  The economy was such that there was always someone in tge wings to move in to the inexpensive vacant buildings as the neighborhood transforned.

However, I dont think the economy in Jacksonville is strong enough to support such types of turnover. The jobs these ethnic groups would seek just arent available. Transit options for those who consider it dont exist in the same forms. This makes it extremely difficult for those at that economic level to consider it.

I hate to bring it up, but this may be inline with some concepts Stephen has brought up with disciminatory zoning and demolition policies so the city doesnt have to deal with ethnicity in any form, period.

They would collectively rather have a vacant slab with little tax value, then to deal with the social issues that arise when a neighborhood begins to transform.

I still think COJ should collect those empty lots and work on a master dev agreement for a new LaVilla that provides all of those characteristics you describe.

That requires developers who have experience developing in urban environments, something we lack.

So are you saying that while there was no clientel to rehab / reuse the existing (cheap) building stock there would be to buy / rent expensive new one in the same area with the same transportation issues - why ?

I could see  why gentrification would happen in an existing (run down) downtown - cool buildings at rock bottom prices. However why - after almost everything is torn down - someone would invest lots of money to build new buildings in that area....

I think one of the advantages of old buildings (besides already being there) - especially the warehouse types - is that you wouldn't or couldn't build something similar nowadays simply for cost reasons (and in some cases the materials may not even be available in the same quality)

I dont think there was strong enough economics to support either rehab or tear down and build new.

Thats why there are still so many slabs and empty lots today.

[thelakelander]

Yes, the economics aren't there for a massive amount of new construction. That's why slabs and empty lots exist. However, let's not forget that LaVilla wasn't abandoned when it was torn down. thousands of residents and several viable businesses were forced to relocate. Leave the businesses and residents in place and there would be a stronger market in that area than what exists today. One of those companies that was forced to move is Main Metal on Beaver Street. Still growing, they recent purchased the old Florida Machine & Foundry in the industrial area of LaVilla that's still standing on the other side of I-95.

[johncb]

In my opinion the crack epidemic of the 1980s was the death knell for the Lavilla area. before that,though poor,it was a relatively low crime area. I never understood the city's reasoning for destroying a long established neighborhood and businesses to combat crime. They just dispersed it to other areas without addressing the root causes.I well remember Lavilla,there were some great buildings,albeit a tad run down. I ride through there now and what was once a colorful and vibrant community is a wasteland. What was the purpose of THAT ?

[Adam12]

There is no rhyme or reason to creating vast tracts of vacant land in the urban core and vacant lots in neighborhoods. A vacant lot is just one more parcel code enforcement doesn't have to keep track of and inspect. They could care less what happens to it after that.