Task force identifies possible convention center sites

[thelakelander]

The city's task force committee will discuss the pros and cons of eight potential sites for a new convention center at 5:30pm Thursday, July 26.  The meeting will be open to the public and held at the Main Library.

The eight sites up for discussion include:

- City Hall Annex/Duval County Courthouse, East Bay and Newnan streets

- Duval County School Board/Wyndham Jacksonville Riverwalk hotel, Prudential Drive

- Jacksonville Fairgrounds, 510 Fairgrounds Place

- The Jacksonville Landing, 1 Independent Drive

- Jacksonville Municipal Stadium Parking Lot J, Gator Bowl Boulevard

- JEA Southside Generating Station, Broadcast Place

- Prime Osborn Convention Center, 1000 Water St.

- Shipyards, East Bay Street

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/071807/bus_185219673.shtml

[hightowerlover]

i had a feeling they would see that pile of dirt that was the JEA station on the south bank and try to make that a site.  i wonder what they're considering for the landing?  or do they mean the east lot?  i really feel like it would need to be on the north bank...although in the not too long term the south bank might be the hot spot to be if these housing markets improve soon.  and besides by the time we get a convention center they can ride the gondolas over the st johns. ha!

[thelakelander]

It will be interesting to sit in on this meeting.  Since money is a concern, as well as connectivity, some of the suggested sites appear to not be any better than staying in the Prime Osborn.

Sites not owned by City of Jacksonville
Both of these sites are owned by private entities that already have plans for them.  Would building a convention center on them also mean paying for riverfront land?

1. Duval County School Board/Wyndham Jacksonville Riverwalk hotel, Prudential Drive
2. Shipyards, East Bay Street

Why take out downtown's top attraction?
Previous reports stressed the importance of downtown having entertainment and dining options within walking distance of the convention center.  Why would we take out a place that has the highest concentration of those things for a new convention center?  Also, while we own the land, we don't own the buildings.  So would we have to buy the Landing from Sleiman?

3. Jacksonville Landing

Isolated locations
Some of these are just as far away from the core and complementing uses as the Prime Osborn.

4. JEA Southside Generating Station, Broadcast Place
5. Jacksonville Municipal Stadium Parking Lot J, Gator Bowl Boulevard
6. Jacksonville Fairgrounds, 510 Fairgrounds Place

City owned & in the middle of it all
On the surface this one makes the most sense, considering the Hyatt is next door, Bay Street borders it to the north and it's in the middle of it all

7. City Hall Annex/Duval County Courthouse, East Bay and Newnan streets

Existing location

8. Prime Osborn Convention Center, 1000 Water St.

[fsujax]

It seems the courthouse/city hall annex site would be the best.  That is just my lowly, planner opinion.

[thelakelander]

From another planner, I'm with you fsujax.  The only major negative I see with that site is potential expansion opportunities down the line, but that won't be much of a concern if the structure goes vertical, as opposed to horizontal.

[downtownparks]

From a non-planner, its also the only one that makes sense.

[comncense]

I agree that the courthouse area would probably make the most sense to build a convention center. At the same time, it would be nice if there would be thoughts of putting retail or other entertainment venues there for residents that happen to live in Berkman, Churchwell and other residential areas around there. i.e. a CVS, Walgreens, late night diner... I mean, isn't Bay Street supposed to be the Entertainment District? ... just my 2 cents.

[downtownparks]

Wouldnt a convention center help spur those things in that area.

[thelakelander]

I agree that the courthouse area would probably make the most sense to build a convention center. At the same time, it would be nice if there would be thoughts of putting retail or other entertainment venues there for residents that happen to live in Berkman, Churchwell and other residential areas around there. i.e. a CVS, Walgreens, late night diner... I mean, isn't Bay Street supposed to be the Entertainment District? ... just my 2 cents.

I would hope that if a convention center went on that site, those other things would be included as well.  Not many urban cities are building warehouse type convention centers these days.  The trend has been mixed use for a while now.  Seattle's convention center is a great model to look at, in terms of how to integrate a variety of uses at street level and even selling air rights.

WASHINGTON STATE CONVENTION AND TRADE CENTER - Seattle, WA

To help visualize the urban convention center concept look no further than the Washington State Convention and Trade Center in Seattle, WA.  This complex, offering over 200,000sf of exhibit space, opened in 1988 and expanded in 2001, takes up four blocks in the heart of downtown Seattle.


The Washington State Convention and Trade Center complex is highlighted in blue.


The original two block center (right) was completed in 1988.  The 2001 expansion (left), doubled the amount of square footage, as well as sold "air rights" to the private sector, which resulted in a 30 story Hyatt Hotel and 16 story office tower.

Central to the expansion’s funding strategy was the sale of adjacent property not needed, to private co-developers. These areas included the surplus development rights above and the significant space beneath the convention center expansion.
 
The term “co-development” is used to describe the condition where multiple project components are separately funded, synergistically related and physically attached. In fact, true co-development refers to a condition where neither project can proceed alone, and their development must proceed concurrently.


This illustration shows the main street level plan, which features several restaurants and retail shops.  Also shown is the most controversial element of the expansion, which was a 90ft wide/ 4-story high, arching glass canopy over Pike Street, which connects the older center with the new expansion.

The WSCTC expansion serves as a benchmark for the integration of co-development into a convention center project by including a hotel, an office building, parking, street-front retail, and a new museum, all located above and below the expansion of the WSCTC.

TU Downtown Vision: Metro Jacksonville's Submission: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/241/115/

[tufsu1]

As a planner myself, I agree in general with the Courthouse location being the best.....but given funding and other constraints, the existing Center may make the most sense....the main thing it needs is a hotel....possibly JEDC could give some incentives to the private market...and use $ from the sale of the courthouse property to fund the expansion (or pay off bonds)

[thelakelander]

Has there been any discussion between JTA and the city regarding the ultimate use of that site?  If the Prime Osborn were expanded, that general area would not only need a hotel, but a few restaurants, bars and anything else to generate traffic and life, outside of a city bus depot.  In any event, the old Buddy Clarkson site would be an important clog there because it's the major gulf between the Prime Osborn's isolation and the heart of the Northbank.

[Jason]

The transportation center has a proposed retail element.  The Prime Osborne also has an existing direct link to the rest of the core via the skyway.  The only drawback to the courthouse site is that there is no transit link (unless you count the trolly busses).  Either could work IMO, but the courthouse site offers the most potential.

if the city redeveloped the courthouse site, what would the potential losses be?  That site is prime riverfront and could collect a pretty penny to pay of the debt for the new courthouse and potentially add to the tax rolls.  The prime Osborne is already a slight drain on the budget but has room to grow without too much infrastructure upgrades.

[thelakelander]

Concerning the Prime Osborn site, its a pretty huge assumption to think it will be easy attracting a convention center hotel there.  If the Hyatt were not around then maybe that would be a different story.  Regarding JTA's retail space....is the type of retail tenant catering to them, the same type catering to the convention industry?  For example, would Plaza III be willing to open up in a Greyhound station?

[Jason]

Here is an in-process model of the Transportation Center and the surrounding area.

See the three dirt lots highlighted in green?  RFPs could be issued for entertainment type mixed use development.  The traffic flow on those streets would be greatly reduced, parking will be a non-issue, and trow in some market rate residential and that place would be hoppin'.








The yellow area shows all of the unused acres already available for possible expansion (vertical and horizontal) of the existing facility.

I guess the next hard part will be to lure in a hotel especially with all of the existing proposals soon to be under construction in the core.

Note that I'm not arguing for this site, just throwing around some ideas. 

[thelakelander]

The most critical site would be the long parcel running parallel to the skyway between the Prime Osborn and Broad Street, which isn't owned by the city.  Its the only one that actually helps bring the Prime Osborn's activities closer together and it also directly ties in with the skyway.  Although, not JTA's transportation center is too spread out, meaning it will not be efficient to make transfers between different modes of transit.  This is where a little coordination comes into play.

1. JTA's entire center should be located on the convention center's yellow shaded area and all the lots north of that should be sold off to private development, perhaps even to a mall developer like Ben Carter, if he can stick to the rules of urbanism.

2. The Clarkson property is key, not only in terms of connectivity, but also eliminating the blight of a dirt surface parking lot, that stretches for blocks.  This is probably a good spot for something like a convention center hotel and adjoining destination uses, that can pull from the direction of the Prime Osborn, as well as the Northbank core.

However, once you start talking about all this type stuff, it would cost you millions more to pull off and probably a decade of extra time, then the idea of simply plopping the center in or adjacent to a spot where many of these things already exist.