85 richest now have as much money as poorest 3.5 Billion

[IrvAdams]

What happened over time was the natural dispersion of taxation and inheritance, etc., and today that wealth is spread out over a much wider area.

Except there was nothing "natural" about it.  It was a conscious political movement to enact progressive income taxes, strong unions, and universal education.  It didn't 'just happen'.

How is that working for you? Declining wages, declining unions, declining education. After 30 years we only need 6 more to "set things right".

That's a good point, finehoe. Today's tax system is much more lenient on the wealthy. Many years of conservative politics in the 80s and 90s has left us with a very non-progressive tax formula.

[I-10east]

The IMO bigger picture is living wages, and raising the minimum wage moreso than vilifying the rich. They will still have tons of money, be envied etc no matter how much the government 'rightfully' tax them. Even in the ideal 'moral utopia (whatever the hell that is) the rich being taxed to the legal maximum, and working class getting a comfortable livable wage, that gap would still be the same. 

[fsquid]

The 85 don't care what the tax rates are because they aren't going to pay those taxes.

[I-10east]

is that based on your vast knowledge of the nature of taxation.  Or even perhaps the years between 1935 and 1990 in America?  Because the actual facts are literally the exact opposite of this absurd claim.

The rich are evil blah blah blah...So what are you gonna do, protest like Occupy Wall Street? Yeah, that worked so well...Meanwhile the livable wage issue for the working class is ignored, right? I don't have any 'vast knowledge of taxation' but you are kidding yourself if you think that the 85 richest aren't gonna still be very rich, regardless of any taxes. 

[I-10east]

^^^It will still be a significant gap, that's what I was saying. Gotta take everything so damn literal...

[I-10east]

Semantics...

[fsquid]

The IMO bigger picture is living wages, and raising the minimum wage moreso than vilifying the rich. They will still have tons of money, be envied etc no matter how much the government 'rightfully' tax them. Even in the ideal 'moral utopia (whatever the hell that is) the rich being taxed to the legal maximum, and working class getting a comfortable livable wage, that gap would still be the same.

is that based on your vast knowledge of the nature of taxation.  Or even perhaps the years between 1935 and 1990 in America?  Because the actual facts are literally the exact opposite of this absurd claim.

The difference between then and now is that they didn't have many alternatives back then, and transportation and communication made the alternatives that were available less attractive back then. You couldn't put your money in an Irish corporation, pay 12.5% taxes, accumulate wealth, and cash it out by selling your stock and realizing capital gains at 20%. You couldn't invest your money in Poland at all.

[I-10east]

semantics?   um ok.  here is a bit of advice i got as a child:  before you use fifty cent words, you should pay someone a quarter to tell you what they mean.

Well it is an slang phrase. You're taking everything so literal again. That's softball stuff, so I'll give you that one so you can feel good about yourself.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=semantics

[finehoe]

The difference between then and now is that they didn't have many alternatives back then, and transportation and communication made the alternatives that were available less attractive back then. You couldn't put your money in an Irish corporation, pay 12.5% taxes, accumulate wealth, and cash it out by selling your stock and realizing capital gains at 20%. You couldn't invest your money in Poland at all.

This is a good point.  That's why the plutocrat owners of our government are pushing the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership and the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).

[finehoe]

Whether or not you could invest in Poland doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.

Sure it does.  Being able to park your money in foreign locales makes it much easier to avoid US taxes.

[finehoe]

Switzerland wasn't invented within the past 20 years, you know.

True enough, but diversification is the key to limiting your losses.

[fsquid]

The IMO bigger picture is living wages, and raising the minimum wage moreso than vilifying the rich. They will still have tons of money, be envied etc no matter how much the government 'rightfully' tax them. Even in the ideal 'moral utopia (whatever the hell that is) the rich being taxed to the legal maximum, and working class getting a comfortable livable wage, that gap would still be the same.

is that based on your vast knowledge of the nature of taxation.  Or even perhaps the years between 1935 and 1990 in America?  Because the actual facts are literally the exact opposite of this absurd claim.

The difference between then and now is that they didn't have many alternatives back then, and transportation and communication made the alternatives that were available less attractive back then. You couldn't put your money in an Irish corporation, pay 12.5% taxes, accumulate wealth, and cash it out by selling your stock and realizing capital gains at 20%. You couldn't invest your money in Poland at all.

So why didn't the economy show this giant historic disparity during the height of taxation rates on the wealthiest?  Whether or not you could invest in Poland doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.

because wealth wasn't as mobile which is what I said.

[ronchamblin]

Insomnia again.

The two fellows on the cover of a book titled ... "We Want You To Be Rich".  One is Donald Trump, and other is some Oriental fellow.

Well ... What if we don't want to be rich?  What if we are beyond that wish?  I certainly don't want to be rich ... at least not filthy rich, because I see the insanity of striving to be, and I understand the destructive consequences of this striving, consequences endured by those who are simply trying to make a living. 

This feeling of thinking it best and good to strive for riches is killing America ... the environment ... and the economies throughout the world.  The promotion of this kind of thinking, as promoted in this book and many like it, is encouraging a way of thinking that puts money and profits ahead of everything else, including what is right and honest ... including one's concern for the wellbeing of others, and ultimately what is good for oneself.

Riches are to be sought in the spirit, in the calm contemplation, in the steady work toward creating ... producing ...toward stability ... without the rush to monetary excesses at the expense of everything good and morally sound.  Riches lie in enjoying the process of understanding the world and its magic ... its wonder.

The individual who strives for riches ... to obscene levels ... is mentally strained to a warped perception of life, prone to excesses in the feverish attempt to achieve riches at all costs ... and usually travels a path bordering on illegal activity ...  or at least offensive and destructive to the lives of others, to the health of the economy, and to the environment.

The mainstream media, the get rich television programs, the advertisements offering all kinds of schemes to get rich ... promote an impossibility.  All cannot be rich.  Only a few can be.  And if the truth were known, only a few really want to be rich.  And many of those that do get rich ... those who've succumbed to worshiping monetary riches ... the extremely rich ... have, by their actions, destroyed the economy in general, and therefore destroyed the ability of the mass of workers to make a livable wage ... or the have a job.

The promotion of the idea of being rich, is a promotion of an insanity ... of a destructive path for anyone taking it. 

For those like Donald Trump, and other schemers who "want all others to be rich too" ... and understanding their great need ... I would like to somehow give them more riches.  I would like to obtain as much money as possible, and to satisfy their obsession, cram as many one hundred dollar bills as possible down their throats, and up their asses, up their noses, and into their ears ... so that finally, they will have achieved that excess in riches to which their obsession has drawn them.  To make sure they have enough riches, we might place a few dozen hundred dollar bills into a blender ... mix in a little water, mustard, and ketchup perhaps ... and via two 3/8" I. D. hoses, pump the blend, under sufficient pressure of course, simultaneously up their asses and down their throats, plugging the other orifices of course, until they bloat with riches, assuming a blimp shape as the pressure increases ... thereby ensuring that these predatory beasts of riches, are satisfied that they have enough, that they are richer than almost all of us combined, the workers, the real producers of the sustaining wealth of any economy. 

Additionally, for those further obsessed with exhibiting their obscene wealth, we might introduce helium into the pumps, blowing the beasts up to float as blimps across the nation for all to see and admire.   

 

[finehoe]

These people never ride first class because they never fly commercial. He rides first class; they own airplanes. They don't own homes, they own estates — so many of them in fact that not one is "home" in the normal sense. Now extend that — for most of these people, not one country is home either.

You and me, we live in a city. Chris Rock, he lives in a city and travels a lot. Real Money lives in the world, everywhere, all of it. And most are loyal to none of it.

And the media that these people own have convinced the teabaggers that their interests are the same as the uber-wealthy.