Jacksonville's Ten Major Missed Opportunities

[I like Jax]

For the same reason  Jacksonville doesn't have huge snowbird population,WDW was going to be in Central or South Florida. It gets just a little to cold in Jax. My mom's good friend retired from NJ and loved Jacksonville when she visited. She wanted the beach nearby and liked having the city close. She chose Ft Myers area for year round beach weather.

[Tacachale]

Lets look back and wallow in our sorrows, instead of looking forward to make Jax a better place. I personally think that the first two wouldn't have ever happened (Jacksonville replacing Hollywood, and Disney World being here). The 70's 80's downtown follies (tearing down buildings etc) is not unique to Jax.

I agree that, at best, Disney World in JAX was a brief passing thought over at the House of Mouse. I believe the closest runner-ups were either Metro Atlanta (rejected for Southern race issues and land costs,) and Palm Beach County (favored for beach access; rejected for land costs.)

I doubt Disney ever seriously considered Atlanta. From at least 1959, if they were putting the park in the South it was going to be in Florida. It's hard to imagine Atlanta being considered after the issues with "Song of the South" in 1946.

It seems likely Disney did give Northeast Florida a look when his group was exploring Florida sites. They looked all over the state between about 1959 and 1963, and as I said above, there's some indication they looked at land in the Panhandle. This is what the Ed Ball "carnival people" legend was about.

It is known that Disney seriously considered Palm Beach County in 1959, but rejected it as it would be difficult to get the amount of land he wanted, it was too close to a populous city, and there would be competition with the beach for tourists. As all those things are also true of Jacksonville, it's exceedingly unlikely any possible plans for a Jax site got past the exploratory stage. He continued looking around Florida and elsewhere, including in St. Louis and Niagara Falls. By 1963, Disney had settled on one of four sites in Florida, all in Central Florida. He eventually selected the Reedy Creek site (the current location) and the rest is history.

As for the motion picture industry locating in JAX, that's 100% true and 100% a missed opportunity of the city and region. 100% supported by verifiable historical fact. At the beginning of the industry, JAX would have been massively preferable to LA, as it was closer to NYC via the railroad (and private cars, for that matter,) and didn't require massive feats of water/river diversion to actually create paradise: it was already here. Hands down, bar none, the rejection of the movie industry entirely changed the fate of the city and the region.

Not quite. Jacksonville became the major location of winter filming for studios based in New York and the Northeast. Hollywood allowed for year-round filming in one place, as well as cheaper land and a more pliant government than could be found in the previous system. When Hollywood proved to be feasible, the New York studios flocked there. Jacksonville's ambivalent relationship with the studios, combined with historical factors that bankrupted many of the studios already invested here, just put another nail in the coffin.

It's certainly possible, however, is that a more supportive response from locals and the government in 1917 could have kept some of the studios here, at least for a while. However, the people spoke in that year's mayoral election by choosing John W. Martin over ardent film supporter J.E.T. Bowden. Martin wasn't necessarily against the film industry, but he didn't strongly approve and didn't do anything to save the studio. He was the Alvin Brown of the era.

To be honest many of the missed opportunities of Jax mirrors that of countless cities that valued their suburbs over their urban core, and many of those mistakes now provide the teaching lessons we use to promote sounds urban development.

That misses the point a bit. Yes, collectively, American cities abandoned their cores and suburbanized and exurbanized. Jacksonville, however, has missed the urban core gentrification trend, almost in its entirety, as reported by numerous sources noting that continued loss of population, vitality and value. I'm not one to posit as to why, but it's important to note that the other three major MSA regions of Florida have revitalized their urban cores, and that in South Florida's case at least, that "Eastward Ho" revitalization is driving the energy of the region, the recovery from the recession and the resurgence in growth. The reawakened cores nationwide are in cities and metro regions, whether or not they are "car cities," that are moving forward. Heck, even HOUSTON woke up their downtown. HOUSTON.

Agree entirely. Everywhere struggled with this issue, but many have managed to bounce back to a degree, while we continue to struggle.

If you don't like Jax, there are plenty of moving vans available.

I believe that what the owners of the site don't like is stagnation and regression of the Jacksonville region and the urban core, yes?

...and be careful what you wish for. The Florida University Brain Drain to other states is a key, long-term issue for the vitality of the state.

There are many things in Jax that truly work, and many, many others that are fixable with a little vision and hard work. Not accepting the status quo does not equal hating the city.

For the same reason  Jacksonville doesn't have huge snowbird population,WDW was going to be in Central or South Florida. It gets just a little to cold in Jax. My mom's good friend retired from NJ and loved Jacksonville when she visited. She wanted the beach nearby and liked having the city close. She chose Ft Myers area for year round beach weather.

I think this is a major positive for us. Areas that get a ton of tourists and snowbirds tend to have their local economy and culture driven by it. Our economy is much more diverse than other parts of the state, and we have a chance to establish ourselves as a different type of Florida community.

[Wacca Pilatka]

I think it was actually Busch Gardens that wanted to move here. They wanted to buy the zoo and expand. That was the 70s,I think.

Not quite.

Busch did express interest in developing a proto-Busch Gardens type park in the 1910s or 1920s in the Brooklyn or Riverside area...not a coaster-fest, but something akin to the original Busch Gardens in Tampa, with the emphasis on gardens.  The city turned down this idea. 

In the 1970s, I understand Busch was approached about acquiring the zoo but was not interested.  This is referenced in the zoo's recently released 100th anniversary book.

As for Disney, the very detailed book "Married To The Mouse" indicates that in addition to all the sites Aaronius mentions, as well as the Ed Ball/Panhandle option, the DC area was considered for an east coast Disney World (in the 60s, that is - I'm not referring to the 90s attempt at "Disney's America" in northern Virginia).  It makes no reference to the Jacksonville legend, which seems to be a myth.

[AaroniusLives]

I think this is a major positive for us. Areas that get a ton of tourists and snowbirds tend to have their local economy and culture driven by it. Our economy is much more diverse than other parts of the state, and we have a chance to establish ourselves as a different type of Florida community.

To be fair, that's kind of the paradigm for Tampa Bay and pretty much non-beach-coastal South Florida (You don't get to nearly 6 million people densely populated on the tourist economy alone. Or, to put this another way, there aren't any snowbirds in Coral Springs.) And it should be noted that with the exception of Orlando (or nationally, Vegas,) MOST major Florida MSAs (Tampa, SoFla,) are defined by the diversity of their economies. Furthermore, they diversified their economies SPECIFICALLY because Disney slurped up the middle class to premium vacation dollars and had no choice but to do so.

Agree entirely. Everywhere struggled with this issue [inner core redevelopment], but many have managed to bounce back to a degree, while we continue to struggle.

I'd argue that's not because there's not the potential to do so...it's a lack of collective political will and one suspects developer/business interests sitting on the land until it reaches X amount of value.

I'd also argue that at least some of this is the result of consolidation masking the problems of the core. Yes, Jacksonville is still growing, but that growth is in the suburbs...which are a part of the "city" of Jacksonville. (On a side note, it also makes city-to-city comparisons hard.)

As for Disney, the very detailed book "Married To The Mouse" indicates that in addition to all the sites Aaronius mentions, as well as the Ed Ball/Panhandle option, the DC area was considered for an east coast Disney World (in the 60s, that is - I'm not referring to the 90s attempt at "Disney's America" in northern Virginia).  It makes no reference to the Jacksonville legend, which seems to be a myth.

This is also detailed as background history for the book "The Disney War." They note that Atlanta was in the running specifically because of their pro-business environment and because of their already quite connected airport. Orlando was ultimately chosen because of its highway confluence as well as the cheap, cheap land...and notably, they sacrificed a slice of coastal property for epochally MORE property.

...and don't get me wrong. Across the board, not only Florida but all of America basically rejects transit. Now, they may want the OPTION of transit and they may want the OPTION of living in a connected, town/village/city TOD or, traditional human, non-suburban construct. And quite a few places HAVE relaunched their downtowns or carved out "fake downtowns" in former malls in the 'burbs. But...they all drive there.

[Tacachale]

I think this is a major positive for us. Areas that get a ton of tourists and snowbirds tend to have their local economy and culture driven by it. Our economy is much more diverse than other parts of the state, and we have a chance to establish ourselves as a different type of Florida community.

To be fair, that's kind of the paradigm for Tampa Bay and pretty much non-beach-coastal South Florida (You don't get to nearly 6 million people densely populated on the tourist economy alone. Or, to put this another way, there aren't any snowbirds in Coral Springs.) And it should be noted that with the exception of Orlando (or nationally, Vegas,) MOST major Florida MSAs (Tampa, SoFla,) are defined by the diversity of their economies. Furthermore, they diversified their economies SPECIFICALLY because Disney slurped up the middle class to premium vacation dollars and had no choice but to do so.

The Tampa area and South Florida, not to mention other parts of the state, are much more dependent on tourism and the retiree economy than we are up here. "Snowbird season" is not something that affects us. Things have been changing somewhat, as more snowbirds and permanent retirees are going to even cheaper pastures on the outskirts of the MSAs or beyond; today are moving to to the Southwest and Treasure Coast areas (or not coming to Florida at all).

Agree entirely. Everywhere struggled with this issue [inner core redevelopment], but many have managed to bounce back to a degree, while we continue to struggle.

I'd argue that's not because there's not the potential to do so...it's a lack of collective political will and one suspects developer/business interests sitting on the land until it reaches X amount of value.

I'd also argue that at least some of this is the result of consolidation masking the problems of the core. Yes, Jacksonville is still growing, but that growth is in the suburbs...which are a part of the "city" of Jacksonville. (On a side note, it also makes city-to-city comparisons hard.)

I think you're spot on here.

As for Disney, the very detailed book "Married To The Mouse" indicates that in addition to all the sites Aaronius mentions, as well as the Ed Ball/Panhandle option, the DC area was considered for an east coast Disney World (in the 60s, that is - I'm not referring to the 90s attempt at "Disney's America" in northern Virginia).  It makes no reference to the Jacksonville legend, which seems to be a myth.

This is also detailed as background history for the book "The Disney War." They note that Atlanta was in the running specifically because of their pro-business environment and because of their already quite connected airport. Orlando was ultimately chosen because of its highway confluence as well as the cheap, cheap land...and notably, they sacrificed a slice of coastal property for epochally MORE property.

I've read Disney War (and Married to the Mouse, a great book), and I don't remember anything about Atlanta, though of course Disney looked at a lot of places, with varying degrees of seriousness. I'd imagine Atlanta may have been one of those places that was explored and rejected early on. Disney was leaning to Florida pretty heavily from 1959, and was dead set on it by 1963. After that point, their other plans were basically a way to throw everyone off about Florida.

[I like Jax]

Consolidation was one of the best things that happened in Jacksonville.  It was a time when lots of exciting things happened.. The downtown library, new JIA, Anheuser Busch brewery and there was lots of hope for the future of Jax. I would love some vision like that today. Jax consolidation gives an advantage

[Noone]

Included in this list should be Shipyards. 10 years ago I recall participating in the American Heritage Rivers meeting that was held here in Jacksonville and every morning when boarding the bus with the 14 River Navigators that represented their rivers to another Destination outside of Jacksonville and explain that what we are going by is the Billion dollar mile that is Shipyards and a presentation on Shipyards is part of your itenarary in an evening event.

After 3 days and the questions would keep coming. So they are going to build Shipyards before Super Bowl XXXIX? And the city is not saving part of the Old Fuller Warren Bridge for Public Access?

[AaroniusLives]

Included in this list should be Shipyards. 10 years ago I recall participating in the American Heritage Rivers meeting that was held here in Jacksonville and every morning when boarding the bus with the 14 River Navigators that represented their rivers to another Destination outside of Jacksonville and explain that what we are going by is the Billion dollar mile that is Shipyards and a presentation on Shipyards is part of your itenarary in an evening event.

Would you be referring to this?
http://www.coroflot.com/aaronmichaelgordon/Shipyards-This-Changes-Everything-PDF-File

[Noone]

No.

[SunKing]

Its only a missed opportunity if Jacksonville would be a better place because of it.  Some were, some weren't. 
LaVilla - Definitely
Streetcars - Yes but that was as the article mentions, a national trend-  Greyhound's Southeastern Lines was headquartered here in 1928 and played a big role in what was then considered a progressive move forward.
UNF/Coastal School- Yes but the land was given to them.  there is still opportunity to locate classrooms if not satellite campuses Downtown.
Beltway Park- I had not heard of it, it would be cool, but at the same time we still have more parks than we know what to do with.
Disney?- No thanks, I would rather live in New Jersey than a lost, soulless town such as Orlando.
Oceana to Cecil relocation- definitely NOT a missed opportunity. For one it was just a bluff all along to address resident complaints about noise, it was never actually going to happen.  Second, the city is much better off having private industry, operate, employ and pay taxes out of there.  Sure, all of the residential growth is currently to the south right now.  But the westside will be an industrial powerhouse in 20 years thanks to that Commerce Center.

Probably the largest missed opportunity would be placing all of the government buildings on the river but that goes right in there with how DT has been mismanaged.  The good news is that train of thought has changed and change is in process as we speak.