The Accidental Revelations of Sanborn Maps

[thelakelander]

i think the mistake accrues with the assumption that the graphed out platting map with the old city cemetery is perfectly in scale to the physical geography.

Yes, what's shown on the original plat map could be wrong. If it is accurate, then that's the location.

[thelakelander]

Good research Lake. I like it. The only concern is translating that original plat mapping to modern more precise grids we have today.

My starting point was scaling the maps from the LaVilla/Downtown grid that did exist at the time.  Every street from Broad to Cleveland maps accurately, suggesting the scales are correct. If the cemetery is not in the location the map suggests, it's because the original plat map has it in the wrong spot.  Regardless of location, I still question that easy to find debris on the site today is from a Civil War era cemetery and not from the remains of +50 structures that have been built and demolished east of Myrtle over the last century.  I'm an analytical guy who needs more than casual opinions interpreting the origin of debris on an illegal dumping site.

But it is interesting that the cemetery plot line matches the angle of Myrtle very well. I can see why this pull forward of maps is convincing.

This may have been a public burial ground at one time.

Most churches of the era had their cemeteries adjacent to the actual church itself. This is why I was looking off Monroe. I agree with Stephen on the trees being something of an age marker. And that plot of land has a large share of old growth on it.

I don't think a couple of random oaks tree are a strong indicator without some survey/data to solidify the assumption.

I will have to go to the library and see if I can find some better records post civil war on what was then Jacksonville's "west side"

Also, drop by the Jacksonville Historical Society Archives at St. Lukes.  I believe they have more readily available information you can use, on this cemetery as well.

Speaking of "Westside", this area is where the "Westside" Church of Christ at 8th & Main in Springfield got their name.  Originally, the church was located off Myrtle Avenue, just north of McCoys Creek.

[Ocklawaha]

Lake, A bit off topic but since you grabbed those shots of the old LaVilla Housing, make damn sure you snap those shotguns on Oakley just east of Spearing in Oakland. Amazingly beautiful cracker architecture.

We ought to categorize our files of such, 'shotguns', 'dog trots', modified dog trot... etc. This way we could be certain to grab at least some examples of each type.

[thelakelander]

I love shotgun architecture. I just looked up this location on Google Earth.  I had no idea those were still there. Thanks for the lead.

Here's another row that hasn't been torn down yet. It's on Cleveland Street just west of I-95 in what used to be known as Sugar Hill.



Shotguns are a major reason why Jax had a much higher population density 50 years ago. They're our historical version of the North's rowhouses. They are a dying breed in our city today.  Jax's Sanborn maps illustrate the proliferation of their development all over our city after the Great Fire of 1901. Today, with LaVilla, Hansontown, Sugar Hill, and Brooklyn extinct, the largest concentration is probably what's left in the Eastside, just north of 1st Street.

[thelakelander]

Yes, it is quite possible the location of the cemetery on the original plat could be wrong.  With the scale used in overlaying the original plat with the other maps, look for two key points west and east of the cemetery location.  The creek to the west and Broad Street to the east, align perfectly between the plat map, google earth aerial, and 1913 sanborn map. It's virtually impossible for the things in between to fall out of alignment unless one of the originals is wrong from the beginning.  Nevertheless, the maps are one of many things that can be used as tools to help verify exact location.

[spuwho]

Here is an zoomed in image from Augustus Koch's birdseye view of Jacksonville from 1893.



The road at the far left with a NW angle is what existed of Myrtle. The street coming across the top is now Church Street West. The two streets that end at what is called "Division Lane" on the map are Duval and Monroe. The street with a horse drawn traction below Monroe is today Adams.

Where Monroe turns into a "nothing" on this picture is where today, it has a "kink" in it due to property lines that predate the street. Hanover Street didn't exist then.  Today, anything east of Division Lane is underneath I-95. What's left of Division Lane is Cleveland Street now.

There is a large house (almost looks like a school with the circular rotunda at the front)facing Adams, but right behind it is the "Old Brick Church". My thoughts are that the cemetery for that church is just above where Monroe is today.

[spuwho]

Here is my take based on the research so far. I would still like to go upstairs at the library and pull some more maps to verify.

Top photo is a crude update to a Google aerial.



Next one looking south from Duval Street.  I got as far as the cemetery fence before the 2 JSO cars showed up.



And then I found this dude surveying the property through the Google Cam... Lakelander I presume?

[spuwho]

I went back in time on that neighborhood to 2007 and this is why the cops jump on you so quickly.

The cemetery was essentially a shanty town with loads of dumped garbage everywhere. The row houses on Duval are still standing (they are all gone today).  There were some classic row houses on Monroe at Cleveland in 2007 and they looked great back then, totally gone now.

[riverside_mail]

After spending the last couple of hours down this rabbit hole and looking at various descriptions, deeds, and maps, I believe Ennis is spot on in his assessment. From this description:
(The Old) Brick Church Cemetery
Church site was on Church St (formerly Old Black Creek Rd) just W of Myrtle Ave
Cemetery site was "of considerable size just to the south of it"

to the deeds where the lot on the SW corner of Church and Myrtle is described as the "Baptist Church lot in LaVilla" and the parcel surrounding it has a Southerly border that butts up to the Northerly borderline of the Consolidated Service Co. also known as the Northerly boundary of the old Baptist Cemetery.

Spuwho, the house you describe above from the 1893 map is pretty distinct in shape and looking at the 1913 Sanborn map, looks exactly like the structure at the SW corner of Monroe and Hanover.

One other thing to consider. I read this in the original thread:
The cemetery that was attached to the "little
brick church" still remains, and is the property of
the First Baptist Church.
3 Annual of the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, 1909.
If this is true, would the cemetery show up on a Sanborn map pre-1909? I don't know if cemeteries were included on Sanborn maps or not, but it is something worth checking out.

I think everyone involved has done an excellent job in uncovering this piece of forgotten history, but it is my belief that Ennis has correctly cited the location of the old cemetery.

[thelakelander]

Yes, Sanborn maps show cemeteries.  I don't think the JPL's collection dates back to 1909 but COJ, JHS or university library may have a collection that does.

[thelakelander]

I went back in time on that neighborhood to 2007 and this is why the cops jump on you so quickly.

The cemetery was essentially a shanty town with loads of dumped garbage everywhere. The row houses on Duval are still standing (they are all gone today).  There were some classic row houses on Monroe at Cleveland in 2007 and they looked great back then, totally gone now.

Yes. The site east of Myrtle had been developed and accommodated a mix of residential, commercial, and industrial uses since the late 1800s.  I remember that junkyard and people living in the shotgun rows when I came to town in 2001. I really find it hard to believe that random debris found on that site in 2010 (right after the remaining structures were demolished) is going to have 19th century cemetery remains exposed out in the open.  Neverthless, I never thought about looking at the deeds of parcels in the vicinity. That's a nice find by riverside_mail.

[riverside_mail]

I can't take credit for finding the deed records; stjr posted a link to them in the original thread. All I did was put the pieces together.

[spuwho]

After re-reading the 2010 materials from Stephen and Riverside Mail, and looking at Lakelanders research,, the thought came to me that there were probably 2 cemeteries. A small one next to the church and a larger plot of land purchased (or donated to) on behalf of Bethel across Myrtle.

There was a lawsuit between the Bethel Baptists and the Tabernacle Baptists (now FBC) on who owned the land and buildings post Civil War. The Tabernacle Baptists lost that suit in court and had to pay the Bethels.

One thing I would like to look at is the court records of that case and how it was settled.

Would also like to see some maps/ records from the property appraiser for Duval County post Civil War, if they werent destroyed by the Fire. These would show official property lines and show the owners, even if it was a farm.

Going through the Sanborns, since they were mostly for insurance purposes only properties eligible or covered by insurance are included.

[thelakelander]

^Make sure to stop by the JHS archives.  I believe there are records to help eliminate or confirm the speculation.

[thelakelander]

The actual question is whether the parcel to the east of present day myrtle was part of the cemetery, not whether or not the cemetery was mainly on the west side of myrtle, which if you actually read through the original story was always maintained.

The debate has never been to prove that the bulk of the cemetery wasn't west of myrtle, but whether the cemetery (whose existence had been completely forgotten until we uncovered the remnant of it at the site described) included the sliver to the east.

This is a new spin on the conversation. Now that we're finally admitting the bulk of the cemetery was on the west and my scaled mapping assessment had some merit, as confirmed by the property deeds west of Myrtle and the original plat maps you have in your possession, we can now move on to the discussion of if there may have been burial grounds outside or adjacent to the main cemetery.  Maybe. However, I believe stronger analysis would be needed to confirm the accuracy.

Whole grave sites simply do not become 'random debris', no matter how much one might wish to characterize them as such.

Correct. grave sites do not become 'random debris'. Left overs of multiple on-site building demolitions, junkyard debris, and elements of illegal dumping sites do. Further analysis would be needed to confirm the location of any 150 year old grave sites, assuming they exist on the site.  A random walk through of the property in its current state would not be sufficient enough to confirm the assumption.

As I described in the original story, the tree line which would have been around the outskirts of the old burial ground is on both sides of myrtle (or at least it still was a few years ago)

The tree line doesn't match the layout shown on the original plat map in your possession.  If they had anything to do with a burial ground, the remaining trees east of Myrtle would indicate a different layout.

Since the land was largely unplatted and undeveloped (I believe the ownership really starts getting described in the properties of Paran Moody (who gravestone is in the Old City Cemetery at the other end of downtown, btw) it really wouldn't tell you much to know who owned the land as the property was being referred to as the 'old cemetery' in the late 1870s (the time of the map it sits on)

I believe the points you now raise would validate my questioning of the accuracy of your plat map.  Scaled correctly, that plat map places the entire burial ground west of present day Myrtle. In fact, it looks like Myrtle may have been laid out to avoid going through it. However, we're now speculating on if was larger or if another cemetery was once located across the street. Neither of these things are present on that plat map.

That map shows the oldest names of the streets of downtown, in an order that they do not exist today.  For example, check out the position of Ward Street.

It's a plat map.  That doesn't mean all the streets shown on it became reality.  It's obvious, outside of the areas closest to downtown, most did not. The development form of what exists today is a result of century-old replats.

From the beginning though the question is not whether the City has correctly identified that the old cemetery lay mostly under the land occupied by the JEA, but whether or not the southeast corner of it lies partially on the property where we have correctly identified it.

Doesn't seem that way, since for years I've been told that perhaps my scales on those maps are off, despite the location of the creek on the west and Broad Street and LaVilla's street network on the east align perfectly with the Sanborns and present day Google Earth aerials. Nevertheless, I believe this speculation has merit. There very well could have been a much larger cemetery or even a few random graves buried outside of the cemetery shown on the late 1800s plat map. However, more confirmation would be needed that. You mentioned the Joel McEachin's office reopened their files on this cemetery after the 2010 article was published.  It's been four years.  What was their final assessment?

And that question has been amply proven by hard evidence, like the grave bed.

It has not been disproven by what amounts to speculation as to why the main layout of the graveyard is in the same place identified in the original article.

However I also agree that the discussion has been fascinating, as the history of the property after it was no longer a graveyard has been described in fascinating detail.

I'm not sure your personal interpretation of what you saw walking on site is enough to confirm gravesites, given the history of this site since the late 1800s.  In fact, it isn't. However, it is speculation that deserves an extra amount of scrutiny and evaluation to either confirm or deny. With that in mind, I'd be highly interested to see what the Office of Historic Preservation's findings were. I'm also interested to see what happened to the graves in the confirmed site west of Myrtle. Were they relocated or do we have some Poltergeist thing going on with the warehouses across the street. I'll contact them or drop by their office next week.