The Jacksonville Landing's Redevelopment Plan

[Tacachale]

When people say that the Landing is fine with just restaurants and shops and doesn't need to be the central event space in Jacksonville, they miss the point that without these events, the restaurants and stores likely would not survive.

Excellent point.

[downtownbrown]

^^^I think supplementing what you have said, which is very true, with the idea that the city needs to be a good partner - in addition to occasional big events that draw crowds downtown in general, a healthy downtown would do wonders to help the Landing.  And a re-imagined Landing and a growing/healthy downtown can happen simultaneously and for many of the same reasons, basically hinging on good decision making and a matter of priorities.

More office workers would translate to larger lunch time crowds.  More residents would translate to regular weekend foot traffic.  And nothing would help more than robust tourism - conventioneers, tourists, vacationers, business travelers, etc.

The city doing things better on its end to emphasize downtown, improve and expand an economy that would bring more office space downtown, incentivize more private residential development, and at least attempt to compete in the CVB business with other cities would basically solve every single problem ever brought up on this forum.  LoL

It would be nice to know exactly how much public money and incentives it would take to get market incentives to take over.  Cynics say downtown doesn't work because there is no market for it.  PW projects all over the world suggest that if you build it they will come.  I wonder what the number is...

[finehoe]

...it is not the Landing that is broken but rather Downtown.

Exactly.

[Tacachale]

But it's one of many broken pieces in a broken downtown; it's not going to miraculously fix itself.

[ronchamblin]

Most problems have both fundamental and peripheral components. While the latter can be attractive to engage because of convenience, perhaps fun, and low cost, nothing of consequence will happen until the fundamentals are seriously addressed.

Simms conveys a truism when he suggests the importance of "somehow" increasing the number of workers and residents in the downtown.

Increasing the "population" in the city core, via workers or residents ... by whatever means, pressures, incentives, or enticements ... will move the core toward the magic threshold most envision.  Past the threshold, a self-sustaining energy will encourage and excite, will lower perceptions of risk, will encourage businesses and lenders to act ... will draw more residents ... thus beginning the process of genuine infill of buildings. 

A post threshold core will create a condition wherein the "city" doesn't have to do much in the way of monetary investment, as the private sector and banks will perceive less risk in moving to action in the core.

In the recent past, and currently, most potential investors and entrepreneurs are waiting for "others" to invest and move on potential projects ... are waiting for more "people" to be in the core ... are waiting for a scenario offering less risk -- which of course will be the post threshold era.

Steve Atkins, Kahn, Sleiman, and some others, are trying to move now ... to act ... engaging various levels of risk now to move the core toward and past the much needed threshold.  These fellows are preparing the way so to speak. 

[mtraininjax]

All good points here about the lack of residents downtown contributing to the Landing's current condition. So look around downtown, there are a lot of empty buildings still. JEA just announced they plan to offer space in their building to other local businesses, but who really wants to be in business downtown, without help from the City to assist with incentives.

I do not see how Sleiman can say he is now in the apartment and condo business when he does not have a proven track record for this. His rallying cry has always been, build me a parking deck and I can make the Landing work, and now he is adding, allow me to build new condos and apartments and I can make the Landing work, my vision of a new Landing. I don't buy it, his first real foray into residential should be spent with his own money on his own land. Surely he can experiment with residential next to one of his strip malls. Show that he is worth of the use of taxpayer funds. Too much of a gamble for me with such a jewel and gateway to downtown.

[thelakelander]

Aren't they building apartments on Sleiman's property behind Earth Fare, Belk, etc. at Atlantic and Kernan?

[Ocklawaha]

But it's one of many broken pieces in a broken downtown; it's not going to miraculously fix itself.

Going to timed parking in lieu of metered parking would go a LONG way to making the retail/restaurant businesses more successful. Don't believe me?

Question:

Given two choices to shop at store/restaurant X, one downtown and one in a equidistant area.

One has unlimited FREE PARKING.
Two has METERED PARKING with stiff enforcement and fines.
Which one do you choose?

Our downtown merchants and restauranteurs should revolt!

ALSO: Nothing wrong with downtown that a commitment for the expanded Skyway and TRUE STREETCAR wouldn't help jumpstart.

[downtownbrown]

Housing, housing, housing.  If people don't live downtown, it will never be developed. 

[Ocklawaha]

Exactly, I just ran by the apartment and dropped off the laundry... 1 minute and a 'TICKET ON MY CAR!'

[KenFSU]

Almost 2:00, and the CIP has yet to be discussed. Not leaving a whole lot of time...

[Anti redneck]

Oh .... its a fountain at the end of Laura.  I thought it was to be a statue of Stephen Dare ... or maybe Jerry Moran ... or perhaps the two of them standing shoulder to shoulder ... finally reconciling their differences ... friends for eternity 

In any case, I still like the layout, and am pleased that it does not include a large gathering place for huge crowds.  The layout is designed for enjoyment "all" the time .. in the day, and the night, by residents, workers, and casual visitors.  It might be that when one designs a place "optimum" for huge event gatherings for brief moments of use, the nature of it is less welcoming to 24 hour ... every day enjoyment by the causal resident, shopper, or visitor.   

If anybody wants to have a huge event location, how about further east along the river ... within the shipyards or near Metro park?  The idea of having a huge "bowl" into which hundreds are dumped in a claustrophobic manner, as is the case with the current layout, seems rather ... well ... tacky.  But that's just me ... and I'm mentally retarded.   

The "open" feeling along Laura will be welcomed by most, as it offers the pleasant "distant" view.  The human psyche seems comforted by the far distance, as in the mountains or the sea.  The proposed layout allows this great view to anyone along Laura street, all the way to the First Baptist Church.  While standing on Laura one can perceive the splendor of god at one end, and the splendor of the river at the other.

And the new layout will allow me, and Jerry of La Cena, and our customers, to view the river while sitting or standing in front of our establishments.   

What you got against vibrancy? Personally, I'd love to see some type of "somewhere to go" and this layout just becomes nothing but another part of town. Want condos? Finish the ones that are unfinished. If the layout included more stuff to do, like an outdoor stage on top, a movie theater, or had pedestrian streets, I wouldn't be too against this design.

[mtraininjax]

Aren't they building apartments on Sleiman's property behind Earth Fare, Belk, etc. at Atlantic and Kernan?

Surely the Building around town thread would divulge such tidbits? Eh? Been around town lately?

[Anti redneck]

The proposed layout allows this great view to anyone along Laura street, all the way to the First Baptist Church.

Yes, that's right. People from all over the world flock to Jacksonville to see the iconic First Baptist Church. Who needs the Statue of Liberty or the Golden Gate Bridge or even the Hollywood sign, when you can come see the First Baptist Church?

[Anti redneck]

Guys, I commissioned some sketches (i.e. copied and pasted in Windows Paint) of the before and after changes to our city skyline that would result from the proposed redevelopment plan. Results are below, and they ain't pretty.

Before:


After:


Before:


After:


Before:


After:

These are all views from the river. They look amazing, but visitors or passer-bys don't see these view unfortunately. They are either seeing the downtown views from the Fuller Warren Bridge, or the I-10/I-95 exchange, and unfortunately, the views from those angles are not very pretty. Would be nice if they were to ever do something about that, but unfortunately, this is Jacksonville we're talking about. They will never do anything to make it look appealing. Sad.