How Parking Spaces Are Eating Our Cities Alive

[Gamblor]

^^^It doesn't get more liberal than that video above. Just because there's a smattering of moderates and conservatives on here, that doesn't mean that they aren't vastly overshadowed. This is for another thread and another day since I'm going way offcourse from the topic...

Well let me reel you back, and get to some good conversation. This question isn't a disagreement, but more a lead. Can you tell me what makes the the video above so liberal? I'm really curious because in different places I have heard many of the concepts in it described as conservative or discussed in a positive manner by conservatives. I'm truly curious what the points are that you don't like or think are too extreme.

[I-10east]

I was referring to MJ.... leaning left I think is an accurate assessment. But I think it isn't too far from center with the diverse group of posters here

I agree. I'll say this since you added to the comment. I think typically that moderates are pretty low key on here, but the far left is usually very impassioned, beating the drum over and over again with particular issues etc. 

[I-10east]

Well let me reel you back, and get to some good conversation. This question isn't a disagreement, but more a lead. Can you tell me what makes the the video above so liberal?

Anti-parking garages, and very anti car. I'm not even saying that Jax need anymore parking garages downtown right now, but atleast garages are appropriate in an urban setting opposed to surface lots.   

[Gamblor]

Well let me reel you back, and get to some good conversation. This question isn't a disagreement, but more a lead. Can you tell me what makes the the video above so liberal?

Anti-parking garages, and very anti car. I'm not even saying that Jax need anymore parking garages downtown right now, but atleast garages are appropriate in an urban setting opposed to surface lots.

Hmm... I didn't really see it as anti-parking garages, I saw it as pointing out that there is a cost to them, especially in tight confines of an urban environment and in that they can make having a solid transportation network more difficult. Although I can see how maybe you could come away with that. I did think it was pro-effective transit.

Out of curiousity, if you have the time, just so I can understand where your coming from better, would you mind watching this similar video by British Conservative Mayor of London Borris Johnson and tell me what you think

https://www.youtube.com/v/watch?v=86zTQ_k_xcI

[JaxArchitect]

I think the video makes the point rather affectively about the negative impact that cars and parking have had on our cities.  It is time we weaned ourselves off our over-reliance on cars and focus more on public transit.  If we took a fraction of the tax dollars we spend subsidizing auto travel (roadways) and divert it to public transportation, we could greatly improve the quality of our downtown environment and improve our quality of life as well. 
The $40K per space reference in the video is certainly not applicable to Jax but $20-23K per space is not uncommon for a newly constructed downtown parking garage.  Even if you don't buy the argument about quality of life, think of how much burden this expense places on a developer who wants to develop a property downtown, especially if that parking garage is unnecessary as were some mentioned in the video.
In Jax, we have plenty of parking spaces downtown currently.  In most cases, there is no need to add more parking, although admittedly parking demand for residential uses is driven not by zoning codes (the downtown overlay does not require parking) but by market demand that still exists in Jax due to lack of public infrastructure. If we could improve our wayfinding and create a better system of sharing parking, we could better utilize the resource that already exists rather than spend more $$ unnecessarily.  Accomplishing this would be a huge catalyst to help our downtown redevelop.

[Gamblor]

I think the video makes the point rather affectively about the negative impact that cars and parking have had on our cities.  It is time we weaned ourselves off our over-reliance on cars and focus more on public transit.  If we took a fraction of the tax dollars we spend subsidizing auto travel (roadways) and divert it to public transportation, we could greatly improve the quality of our downtown environment and improve our quality of life as well. 
The $40K per space reference in the video is certainly not applicable to Jax but $20-23K per space is not uncommon for a newly constructed downtown parking garage.  Even if you don't buy the argument about quality of life, think of how much burden this expense places on a developer who wants to develop a property downtown, especially if that parking garage is unnecessary as were some mentioned in the video.
In Jax, we have plenty of parking spaces downtown currently.  In most cases, there is no need to add more parking, although admittedly parking demand for residential uses is driven not by zoning codes (the downtown overlay does not require parking) but by market demand that still exists in Jax due to lack of public infrastructure. If we could improve our wayfinding and create a better system of sharing parking, we could better utilize the resource that already exists rather than spend more $$ unnecessarily.  Accomplishing this would be a huge catalyst to help our downtown redevelop.

That sounds way to substainable... it'll never fly 

[I-10east]

^^^I saw the video Gamblor. Boris Johnson was talking very liberal with the vision of London, and he's a Conservative. Although politics over there are different across the pond in contrast to the US. I think that the 'bicycle highways' are way over the top, but I'm sure that many on here will say it's the way to go, admirable etc.

[Gamblor]

^^^I saw the video Gamblor. Boris Johnson was talking very liberal with the vision of London, and he's a Conservative. Although politics over there are different across the pond in contrast to the US. I think that the 'bicycle highways' are way over the top, but I'm sure that many on here will say it's the way to go, admirable etc.

I think Borris is confronted by different circumstances than we are, and if I may, allow me explain his "conservative" point of view... Bicycle highways will heavily ease congestion as bikes are everywhere (and also help with safety for bikers), but Crossrail is genius especially when paired with the impacts of the 5-year plan from Cameron. I love how it will take 2-3 hour rail commutes and turn them into 45min-1hour. This is is important as the 5-year plan opened up building on green fields for new housing, which many areas around London were major parts of. These two paired together will drastically help fix the one of the UKs greatest problems, finding reasonably priced housing in a reasonable distance from the commercial center. Also the savings which citizens garner should boost the economy as people will have more in there pockets to spend. The impact of saving citizens money and growing business/municipalities would be where he says he is conservative.

[peestandingup]

You're in rare form today, I-10. I sometimes think you just type to hear the sound of your keyboard.

Its pretty clear you've never spent any significant amount of time in many cities that do transit & pedestrian infrastructure right. You know how I know? Because you're basing everything you say around just the stuff you see around here. Transit being awful & mostly a handout for poor people, only hippies (that you see them as anyway) that hang out in places like Riverside talk about decent transit/walkable/bikeable environments, etc. Trust me, it isn't all hippie liberal douche bags like you think. Everyone uses these things in major cities. Ev-ery-one. Got it? The reason they use it is because its easier than driving in most cases, readily available, reliable & cheaper (on all fronts). In Jax? No, these all suck here. Here its much easier to just drive, but at a higher cost overall for everyone. What choice do we have? Not much of one, and its probably like that for a reason.

I know this won't sway your warped opinion of "only real Americans drive cars, live in the burbs, etc" thing you seem to have going, but its worth a shot. Maybe live abroad, travel around for a while, gain some perspective & see if it removes the stick outta your butt & humbles you a bit. THEN come back & comment.

[Redbaron616]

Cars are freedom and we need a place to park them. We don't want to sit and wait for the next bus in bad weather or when our child is sick. We want to jump in our car and go. No other form of transportation can compete with that freedom. Without parking lots, you'll have even less people downtown.

[Gamblor]

Cars are freedom and we need a place to park them. We don't want to sit and wait for the next bus in bad weather or when our child is sick. We want to jump in our car and go. No other form of transportation can compete with that freedom. Without parking lots, you'll have even less people downtown.

When the price of freedom hits 5 bucks a gal in jax, lets see how that claim that no other form of transportation can compete holds up 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Without parking lots, you'll have even less people downtown.

Seems like this discussion is going on in two separate threads.  My take on parking v/s perception.

I'm not meaning to come across huffy, it's just a conversation that I've had so many times that I'm convinced it's just common sense and I don't understand why so few people can comprehend it

Here's one of the examples I used with a friend of mine.

She and I went to Town Center and this was the generic path we took:



The next day, we went to Mellow Mushroom and she complained about the walk...



And if I were to suggest the same scenario that I discussed, I would probably get a bunch of flak about not being able to park nearby...



There's plenty of parking garages that are closer, but I wanted to choose a path that gives a multitude of option.  Even walking past the car to grab a drink at Burro or a bite at Chomp Chomp.

Numbers don't lie.  It's about perception.  And until people get over the fact that parking a couple of streets away is the EXACT SAME THING as parking in the middle of a typical department store surface lot, then we'll continue having this discussion.

Note to Mods:  I realize this is completely off topic, but it's a discussion that we've had here many times and is kind of relevant to make a point to ssky.  Move if needed.

[finehoe]

Cars are freedom

I couldn't disagree more.  Freedom is not having to drive everywhere, not spending money on gas, insurance, upkeep.  True freedom is not having a yoke around your neck called an automobile.

[peestandingup]

Cars are freedom and we need a place to park them. We don't want to sit and wait for the next bus in bad weather or when our child is sick. We want to jump in our car and go. No other form of transportation can compete with that freedom. Without parking lots, you'll have even less people downtown.

Actually, freedom involves choice. You have no choice BUT to drive here. How exactly is that freedom?

[Lunican]

Cars are freedom and we need a place to park them. We don't want to sit and wait for the next bus in bad weather or when our child is sick. We want to jump in our car and go. No other form of transportation can compete with that freedom. Without parking lots, you'll have even less people downtown.

In an environment built for people walking is freedom.