The Jacksonville Landing's Redevelopment Plan

[JayBird]

Looks good to me; but why build everything in phases? Afraid of a "bust" of some kind? Afraid of failure? Build the mix use high rises when the market is ready...how much you wanna bet, based on Jacksonville's past history and track record regarding projects like this, that those mix use high rises never get built? Jacksonville is so indecisive. I'm being too pessimistic you say? I feel the market is ready in Jax. The economy, population, finances, all are on the move and in a success type mode in Jax. Don't be so afraid. If City leaders do their job, in addition to the developers and others doing their part relative to marketing and promotion, go ahead and build it all at once and I'll bet THEY will come! I'm sold on this plan, but it appears that City Leaders, and others, don't have faith in themselves or our city...they are so nervous, afraid and scared...of what exactly I do not know...oh, I remember, I said failure didn't I? I love Jacksonville but sometimes the City Government just makes me ill.

I agree with this, but I'm in finance not real estate development, and I'm actually waiting for Simms to read this because he has an uncanny ability for predicting real estate futures in Jacksonville (no sarcasm here, plenty of his posts have come true almost exactly as predicted), but here is what I have heard numerous times from people "in the know":

Pretty much everything planned for downtown has a market waiting to fill it. The problem is that the first project(s) will beat the path for everyone else and unless done very carefully by a seasoned team, will fail. So even though it will be the real spark that ignites the downtown boom so many want, very few are willing to risk their money just to "take one for the team". I tend to believe this because the same principle applies to business in general, "the original idea company will make 1,000s; the second company that tweeks a few things and repackages similar product will make billions".

Just my $.02

[JayBird]

from what I hear, Khan is backing this project as well....he may believe (like others) that The Landing is the lynchpin for everything else downtown.

This is interesting ... Would also signal that Khan isn't fully committed to the Shipyards just yet.  But the publicity hound that Sleiman is, surprised that wasn't first sentence in article. This really feels more like his regular "throw it at the wall an see what sticks". I mean this is 3rd plan in 12 months, so I'll remain skeptical and happily chow down on humble pie in the newly opened Khan/Sleiman Landing.

[JayBird]

^ and being that Facebook and twitter are blowing up with commens along the lines of "if the city gives $1 to Sleiman that'll make my voting decision easier" I have to think any plans will be tabled until late 2015/early 2016.

[thelakelander]

The Shipyards and the Landing should complement each other. If Khan is taking an interest in the Landing, that's probably a good thing for both properties.  I'm also interested to see a proposed site plan.  Is the $11.8 million supposed to fund the public riverfront space, streets, and the removal of the Main Street Bridge ramp, while Sleiman pays for the development of the new structures?  Also, the name should change.  The Landing is being completely demolished and will exist no more.

[KenFSU]

While I understand and appreciate the need for a re-do on the space, it will be a little sad to lose the iconic look of the existing structure. The buildings included in the new plan look a little bland.

If not iconic as a shopping mall, the Landing courtyard as it exists is certainly iconic as an event space. I have a hard time visualizing from the few renderings how events like Florida-Georgia weekend, the Christmas Tree Lighting, New Year's Eve, etc. will fit in at the new Landing. Across the street in the grass?

Ennis, per the T-U, the $11.8 million from the city will build the roads and landscape the city-owned property around the buildings. "No figures were given from any incentives for the buildings themselves."

[blizz01]

What happens to the iconic sign?  Hooters?  Is it still a "Landing" (i.e. boat slips)?

[Tacachale]

While I understand and appreciate the need for a re-do on the space, it will be a little sad to lose the iconic look of the existing structure. The buildings included in the new plan look a little bland.

If not iconic as a shopping mall, the Landing courtyard as it exists is certainly iconic as an event space. I have a hard time visualizing from the few renderings how events like Florida-Georgia weekend, the Christmas Tree Lighting, New Year's Eve, etc. will fit in at the new Landing. Across the street in the grass?

Ennis, per the T-U, the $11.8 million from the city will build the roads and landscape the city-owned property around the buildings. "No figures were given from any incentives for the buildings themselves."

So basically, the $11.8 million is just the beginning to how much money will be requested. That would be find if we had capable negotiators in City Hall, instead of, well, Alvin Brown.

[thelakelander]

What happens to the iconic sign?  Hooters?  Is it still a "Landing" (i.e. boat slips)?

They'll all be demolished.  From the renderings, it looks like the Landing marketplace concept will be replaced by a much smaller 2-block version of Washington, DC's National Harbor.







As I stated earlier, I can't wait to see a plan view of this redevelopment.  I'm just as interested to see what happens along Independent Drive.

[Charles Hunter]

What happens to the iconic sign?  Hooters?  Is it still a "Landing" (i.e. boat slips)?

They'll all be demolished.  From the renderings, it looks like the Landing marketplace concept will be replaced by a much smaller 2-block version of Washington, DC's National Harbor.



As I stated earlier, I can't wait to see a plan view of this redevelopment.  I'm just as interested to see what happens along Independent Drive.

Is that Toney's hand out for taxpayer money?

[thelakelander]

LOL!

[tufsu1]

So basically, the $11.8 million is just the beginning to how much money will be requested. That would be find if we had capable negotiators in City Hall, instead of, well, Alvin Brown.

sorry, but no...the $11.8 million is the amount the City would pay...$1 million up front and the rest at the back end if the project comes to fruition.

To me, there are two big problems with the concept

1. It is pretty uninspiring...looks like any other mixed-use development in any other city (although that is progress for Jax)

2. the road extension along the riverfront....I'm sure the streets could be closed for events, but the idea of separating the buildings from the riverwalk seems to be a lost opportunity.

[thelakelander]

So basically, the $11.8 million is just the beginning to how much money will be requested. That would be find if we had capable negotiators in City Hall, instead of, well, Alvin Brown.

sorry, but no...the $11.8 million is the amount the City would pay...$1 million up front and the rest at the back end if the project comes to fruition.

To me, there are two big problems with the concept

1. It is pretty uninspiring...looks like any other mixed-use development in any other city (although that is progress for Jax)

So you can't get to next level or world class status by building a slightly larger Tapestry Park in the heart of downtown?

2. the road extension along the riverfront....I'm sure the streets could be closed for events, but the idea of separating the buildings from the riverwalk seems to be a lost opportunity.

From the rendering it looks that way.

[Tacachale]

So basically, the $11.8 million is just the beginning to how much money will be requested. That would be find if we had capable negotiators in City Hall, instead of, well, Alvin Brown.

sorry, but no...the $11.8 million is the amount the City would pay...$1 million up front and the rest at the back end if the project comes to fruition.

Nope, it's $11.8 million for the roads and city improvements, then on top of that, however much they'll eventually ask for "any incentives for the buildings themselves."

[tufsu1]

my understanding is DIA has no plans to provide additional incentives

[Tacachale]

We'll see. However, between Alvin Brown and Toney Sleiman, exactly one person has a reputation for being a competent negotiator.