ST AUGUSTINE STREETCAR? IT COULD HAPPEN!

[Ocklawaha]

Gee, I don't know? How did this happen? 

St. Augustine, Fla., mulls streetcar
Written by  Douglas John Bowen

 
St. Augustine, Fla., mulls streetcar
St. Augustine, Fla., is considering a narrow-gauge heritage streetcar operation, roughly paralleling U.S. Route 1 and linking several traffic generating sites within the municipality.

The proposal, first disclosed publicly this spring by Historic City News website, is being aided by a so-far unnamed designer of track and overhead wire systems.

Last September the St. Augustine Mobility Institute held a weeklong series of public seminars addressing the city's mobility challenges. The institute is a partnership between the city and the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization, the metropolitan planning organization (MPO) for four counties, with Kansas City, Mo.-based HNTB cosponsoring the event and the subsequent report.

The city in 2013 also considered a resolution to participate in a First Coast Commuter Rail System, a plan that would connect St. Augustine to Jacksonville, Fla.

Though tourism is cited as a prime driver for the streetcar project, the proposal also cites eventual connections with proposed All Aboard America and Amtrak intercity rail services being suggested for Florida's east coast, using Florida East Coast Railway right-of-way.

Economic development also appears to be part of the plan, as the proposed line would serve the San Marco Corridor Redevelopment Area, according to a slide presentation posted by Historic City News. St. Augustine, located in northeastern Florida roughly 37 miles south of Jacksonville, has a metropolitan area population of roughly 69,000.

Railway Age Magazine


Photos

[ProjectMaximus]

That would be tremendous. It won't be in time for the 450th anniversary celebration but it's a positive sign.

That said, I guess I don't know St Augustine that well...what are the "several traffic generating sites" that they want to connect? The future aquarium? And does this mean the potential AAF/Amtrak/Commuter rail station would be away from downtown and connected via this streetcar?

[Ocklawaha]

Connecting parking Garage 1 and Parking Garage 2 (planned - probably behind the San Sebastian winery) Riberia to King to St. George to Cathedral to Cordova (going north-east) and Cordova to King to Riberia (going south-west). A phase 2 segment could play a large role in the redevelopment of the blighted San Marco Street corridor and would run from the current Parking Garage 1, up San Marco to the Railroad Station and possibly the airport. I would expect much of this route beyond the congestion at Castillo, to be median or side of the road running as the original system was.

St. Augustine is probably the one place in the whole United States outside of some plastic park, where a private streetcar line could not only survive, but thrive with a robust bottom line.

[IrvAdams]

Connecting parking Garage 1 and Parking Garage 2 (planned - probably behind the San Sebastian winery) Riberia to King to St. George to Cathedral to Cordova (going north-east) and Cordova to King to Riberia (going south-west). A phase 2 segment could play a large role in the redevelopment of the blighted San Marco Street corridor and would run from the current Parking Garage 1, up San Marco to the Railroad Station and possibly the airport. I would expect much of this route beyond the congestion at Castillo, to be median or side of the road running as the original system was.

St. Augustine is probably the one place in the whole United States outside of some plastic park, where a private streetcar line could not only survive, but thrive with a robust bottom line.

Totally agree with that last sentence. It would fit right in. Maybe also in Fernandina, itself a cool historic district.

[IrvAdams]

Also, I have watched over the last few years as St. Augustine has made some smart and aggressive moves for tourism and preservation, good ideas coming from there. Congrats to them. We could learn from it.

[Jason]

This plan is exactly what St. Augustine needs to move into the tourism big leagues and alleviate parking and traffic woes in the historic district.

Ock, you are a genius for pitching this idea!

[Charles Hunter]

If they want any state or federal money for this  - that is, it isn't fully privately funded - they better start lobbying the North Florida TPO to get it in the 2040 Long Range Plan.

[Gunnar]

This plan is exactly what St. Augustine needs to move into the tourism big leagues and alleviate parking and traffic woes in the historic district.

Ock, you are a genius for pitching this idea!

Why not make JIA the (air)port of entry for tourists arriving via plane? The first coast commuter light rail mentioned in the article could connect JIA to St Augustine via downtown, Clay and/or the beaches).

[Ocklawaha]

First Coast Commuter Rail, is not light rail. 

[civil42806]

Read this, sound interesting, but  along what line/street would the rail run?.

[Ocklawaha]

This plan is exactly what St. Augustine needs to move into the tourism big leagues and alleviate parking and traffic woes in the historic district.

Ock, you are a genius for pitching this idea!

Why not make JIA the (air)port of entry for tourists arriving via plane? The first coast commuter light rail mentioned in the article could connect JIA to St Augustine via downtown, Clay and/or the beaches).

Gunnar, First Coast Commuter Rail is a large Amtrak size train system. Usually they are run as a locomotive and two double deck coaches, they are bi-directional and run in push or pull mode. In larger cities more coaches are usually the norm. There are also a few such as Denton Texas that use modern DMU cars or older RDC cars, but again these are full size trains. The actual plan does include lines to St. Augustine, Green Cove/Palatka, and Yulee (past Airport Road near JIA) but I don't expect we'll see much beyond Clay and St. Johns and even that's very iffy with JTA at the controls.

Light Rail, Interurbans, Cable Cars, Streetcars (vintage, heritage or reproduction) all come from the same root, the humble horse or mule car of the 1800's. As a result they are somewhat interchangeable in both terms and service. For example I can run (in fact did last week end) a 1905 open bench trolley car, a modern LRV, and a 1940 vintage interurban car on the same track, at the same time. But I wouldn't (and it would be illegal) to run the same on the CSX or FEC.

St. Augustine is looking at a vintage, (REAL 1923 MODEL BRILL/ST LOUIS STREETCARS) narrow gauge (3 foot) streetcar line, which could morph into a system not unlike what they once had.

[civil42806]

okay but where would the rail run?  down st georges street? or one of the adjacent ones or out towards us 1?

[Ocklawaha]

Read this, sound interesting, but  along what line/street would the rail run?.

What we've been talking about (Hey and you too Jason, your genius drawings helped put this over the top) Civil, is a starter line which could connect two major parking garages and pass through the old city in between. The initial route I'm working on could be as short as the current garage - down Cordova - to King - to St. George - to Cathedral - to Cordova - and return. But, keeping that basic loop in mind, consider the cars turning west on King and going to Malaga or Riberia where they turn south a block and enter the new garage. On the return trip you simply go down King to St. George to Cathedral to Cordova.

The exciting part is this could play into the city's plans to remake the San Marco Corridor, if this happened the cars could run over to Castillo - to San Marco - and hence north to the railroad station... or... even the airport. I would expect them to be off the side of the road on most of a rebuilt San Marco, and certainly along US 1. If they crossed US 1 at San Marco and the railroad station, they could cross like any other train with full - four quadrant signals and gates protecting them.

The initial cars we've found are all American exports that have been repatriated, one however is a Los Angeles narrow gauge 'California Car' or 'Huntington Standard.' These are all in the barn of a good friend in CA. The photos are of some of the actual car class, still in operation in the EU.

[civil42806]

well not going to yank your chain too much, been trying to find a place in downtown st augustine that I can afford.  But has this even been floated by the residents of cordova street.  I am doubtful at best they wouldn't fight you to the death!

[Ocklawaha]

It's been published several times, so far no real fuss. Certainly we'll have some NIMBY'S but when the business community understands this will bring $$ right to their door, the pressure will be on. The College likes this too.

BTW, JUST FOR FUN - NEVER - EVER - EVER - LEAVE YOUR KEYS IN THE CAR! 

http://www.youtube.com/v/IGHtpFfOKec?hl=en_US
Last weekend in Wisconsin. Economists note the only time I'm giving it any power is when the big black controller is being pulled backward. 90% of the time, streetcars coast... Bet y'all didn't know that!?!