A Tale of Two Parks

[thelakelander]

Lake, how could the park be saved starting from now?

Other than being used as an outdoor bathroom for dogs, the park needs to incorporate something that has the ability to pull in people on a regular basis.  Perhaps a third of the park could become the home of playground equipment and perhaps a picnic pavilion.  This would draw children's groups on field trips to the library, as well as dowtnown visitors/residents with small children. 

Another option would be to take advantage of Main Street's high traffic count and RFP a corner out to a small restaurant/retail vendor, with outdoor seating opening into the park.  This brings in a space that attracts people throughout the day.  Perhaps the side of the building could be used as a screen, anchoring one of the green spaces?  That space could then be used for events, like outdoor movies.  There are several other things out there that will work also.  Combine a few of these elements and you now have a pretty decent space, despite the large number of surface parking lots and garages surrounding it.

[brainstormer]

Throwing money at something is not always the correct answer.  For example, if a park had to be built at this site, it could have been constructed without concrete retaining walls, brick pavers, etc.  Lay sod at ground level and add a tot lot and perhaps a picnic pavilion or two to take advantage of schools and children's groups using the library and the usage would be higher.  So cheaper investment = more usage, plus you still get the improved look for people driving by on Main Street. 

This was exactly what I was trying to say, if you take away my bitterness and lack of respect for the mayor.  It would be nice to have a small play area downtown next to the library for the kids.  There is no reason kids should be excluded from downtown.  We always have to drive to get to a play area.  This would have been a perfect spot.

[Ocklawaha]

Your joking right? You guys mean Jacksonville drivers would have to stop to let the little kiddies cross from the library to the park for lunch? FAT CHANCE!

10 points to get the fat kid with the big lunch box...

20 points to run down your favorite race/gender/sexual orientation hate child...

Add 50 points for speeds of 40+ mph

The national "walk score" for downtown Jacksonville is 31 out of 100 points!

PEACE OUT JACKSONVILLE!

OCKLAWAHA

[brainstormer]

I actually have the privilege of looking at the park from my apt. window.  If we removed two sets of the concrete/mulch barriers along monroe street, at what would be the most eastern corner, there would be a nice grassy square that would be perfect for an outdoor play land and a couple of picnic tables.  Along main street there is already a large square of brick pavers.  All this needs is a few tables with chairs.  Building a little cafe or snack shack could get kind of expensive as a stand alone.  I wonder how much it would cost to reconstruct a facing/corner of the library facing main street and put something there.  Renting out some street level retail would be another revenue for the library building and make it even more usable.

[thelakelander]

I actually have the privilege of looking at the park from my apt. window.  If we removed two sets of the concrete/mulch barriers along monroe street, at what would be the most eastern corner, there would be a nice grassy square that would be perfect for an outdoor play land and a couple of picnic tables.  Along main street there is already a large square of brick pavers.  All this needs is a few tables with chairs.

Perfect spot for a small playground. 

Building a little cafe or snack shack could get kind of expensive as a stand alone.  I wonder how much it would cost to reconstruct a facing/corner of the library facing main street and put something there.  Renting out some street level retail would be another revenue for the library building and make it even more usable.

There are several ways to handle this.  For example, the spot could be RFP'd out and whoever purchases/leases the spot would be responsible for the outlet's construction.  Or intead of a full blown outlet, vendor space could be installed or set aside and leased out.  While it does not have to be this nice, here's an example of vendor space, a visitor's information center and public restrooms being incorporated into Detroit's new riverwalk.

[Ocklawaha]

We seem to never consider SCALE in our ventures... I had a real learning experience in scale in Latin America. Something like what Medellin places in the city parks and plazas and leased spaces would be most cool in the USA. VIVA COLOMBIA!


JACKSONVILLE meet "Mc Park" and yes it IS Mickey D's.



OCKLAWAHA

[stjohnsguy]

Lets get to the real issues..Downtown will always be a ghost town until they get the crime and homeless under control.Time to play hard ball like Mayor Guiliani in New York during his term.He turned NEW YORK around!!! Times Square was full of homeless and prostitutes.He put more Cops on the streets to take out the garbage. Look at Times Square now. I feel safe there in the middle of the night.Downtown Jax will not be a place to live or visit until this issue is addressed.I just don't think Peyton has the stones to do it.So Downtown Jax will stay a ghost town.That pocket park is a total waste.     I know....WELL MOVE THEN...Cant right now kids in school.           I want DT Jax to turn around IT HAS REAL POTENTIAL  but I dont see it happening

[uptowngirl]

Downtown Minneapolis had a bocce court; across the street were several pubs and other restaurants. It was a HUGE hit.

Otherwise, just some seating in the shade, perhaps some tables with umbrellas, would be a good cheap start.

[brainstormer]

I'm going to disagree stjohnsguy.  I've lived downtown for a year now and crime and the homeless are not the reason why downtown isn't Times Square.  The homeless certainly don't help our image, but they are harmless.  I've never felt unsafe in downtown.  What was the date of the last murder, robbery or shooting in downtown?  I honestly don't know because it hasn't been recent.  I urge you to challenge your existing view and come back for a visit.  Downtown won't be a happening place until people like yourself make it one.  If you need restaurant or club recommendations, I'd be happy to share some names of places to check out.  And don't worry, we have plenty of parking, if that's an excuse.  It can just be a little tricky to find.  

[Coolyfett]

I find it funny that the traditionally anti-urban conservatives seem to be populating this site more and more... When you live this close together, you have to work together to make things work...

The next time I read someone trying to justify this park on a budgetary point, I'm off this blog for good. Who cares if he wasted 630k, at least he didn't spend twice that and actually accomplish something great, right? That seems to be the prevailing mentality sometimes... Some people would rather not spend money at all, than on a decent community investment, so we get stuck with crap like the MSPP....

I swear, sometimes this town makes me want to sell my soul and move to Orlando with the mouse....

How much is your soul worth? 

Seriously stick around. The anti-urban conservatives opinion are the most entertaining me. It documents why Jax is so far behind. When the progressive thinkers are out numbered by the conservatives, this site is going to be great education errrrrr..........entertainment.

In my best girly voice "Dont expand the Skyway it'll cost too much waaaaa" "We don't want Jackson Square waaaaaa" "Downtown has too much crime waaaaa" "Hip Hop events shouldn't be in Riverside waaaaaaa" "Homeless people are bad people waaaaaaa"......


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! Fucking WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[stjohnsguy]

No you are right crime, homeless people,and vacancy make downtown very attractive.That is why everyone is falling over themselves to move there.....that is funny .....Why has it worked for so many other cities?Lets just be realistic.We all want a downtown we can be proud of...AGAIN TAKE OUT THE TRASH

[GatorDone]

I don't know what the answer is and I probably don't know all the problems but the purpose of this site is to compare Jax to other cities. What I can tell you about my experiences in Jax is that with the exception of a few neighborhoods, I don't feel safe in most of Jax at night and in many during the day and this perception which I hear many others say is a problem. There are models for solving this problem if Jax wants to look at them, Omaha and NY to name two.

Jax has also decentralized everything. 5 points is nice but limited, San Marco is nice but limited. Like it or not, major retailers bring people unless there is a touristy reason for people to be there. If we want downtown to be something, some major retailers are probably going to have to be part of the grand scheme. Take Savannah for example, touristy areas and retailer areas are what attract people to various parts of historic district. I nice downtown is much more enjoyable to visit than a mall. 

As for parks, Jax has no clue. First off, every time Rutherford wants more money the citizens are told to choose between parks, library hours, and crime. What kind of mind set is this? Next, why is it every time I see a bench, it is wide open in the sun, we live in Florida after all. Whether it be a bus stop or a park, how about some cover, trees or otherwise. It is almost like a truck went done the street and threw a bench off every so far and the were left were they landed. I do not know about the rest of it but if Savannah, Tampa, Fort Wayne, Sioux Falls, Omaha, Denver, Colorado Springs, or any other city I have lived in or traveled to can have a nice park system filled with features similar to the parks that are highlighted here every so often, then we in Jax can do it to. I believe it is poor planning and alternative priorities on behalf of the city officials and ultimately us as citizens.

[Matt]

on a not-so-related note, how is Detroit doing?

[apvbguy]

I'm going to disagree stjohnsguy.  I've lived downtown for a year now and crime and the homeless are not the reason why downtown isn't Times Square.  The homeless certainly don't help our image, but they are harmless.  I've never felt unsafe in downtown.  What was the date of the last murder, robbery or shooting in downtown?  I honestly don't know because it hasn't been recent.  I urge you to challenge your existing view and come back for a visit.  Downtown won't be a happening place until people like yourself make it one.  If you need restaurant or club recommendations, I'd be happy to share some names of places to check out.  And don't worry, we have plenty of parking, if that's an excuse.  It can just be a little tricky to find.  

you could be right and you could also be conditioned to be more accepting of what others perceive to be a problem. one thing that you are ignoring is that perception is reality and when people see homeless and undesirable types running amuk downtown, to them that makes it a scary place and this is a problem that needs to be addressed. You might know that the bum who is always on the corner is harmless but Joe sububanite is intimidated because he doesn't know what that smelly dirty person will do.
One big thing the city needs to do is make a partnership between law enforcement and social services, the cops need to sweep the streets of these people who have problems and instead of just moving them on they need to be pointed in the direction of the social services that can address the roots of their problems be it drug addiction or mental illness. The cops need to include the social service agencies in their efforts to clean up the core. This can be done, I've seen it work and if a comprehensive effort isn't made nothing will get done.

[TD*]

Putting all of the rest of the comments aside.. This article just misses completely Lakelander.... You are comparing one of detroits best downtown parks to jacksonville's worst.


Anyhow this piece needs revision as you stated.