A Tale of Two Parks

[Metro Jacksonville]

A Tale of Two Parks



A quick visual lesson on the Do's and Don't's of urban park planning.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/872

[brainstormer]

So sad.  I mean do we even need to discuss this?  I guess when you don't visit parks, it is pretty hard to design one.  Next time Peyton should maybe ask the free advice of a local gardener, a 10 year old child, or really anyone who lives downtown.  You know it would be great for him to leave his office every once in awhile and walk around a bit.  Perhaps he could check out the Main Street Park!  He can read the historical plaques, watch the water in the fountain and then gather his family around a picnic table after the children are done playing.  Oh wait. Sorry family.  "I messed up."

[TD*]

Im really not sure what this article is trying to articulate. What are the bad aspects of Jacksonville's Pocket park versus Detroits?

It appears in your selective photos that you are trying to show that Jacksonville's homeless gather in the pocket park, where as by some stroke of genius detroits park is so clean and well planned that no homeless ever relax in the detroit park..


Weak article, and weak argument.

[copperfiend]

The Main Street pocket park is a disaster. Every time I go to the library, I am reminded of the city's finest homeless park. It is littered with trash and some things I'd rather not mention. It was a huge waste money. And I have no doubt that when the next golden child is elected mayor, nothing will be done to the property.

[copperfiend]

Im really not sure what this article is trying to articulate. What are the bad aspects of Jacksonville's Pocket park versus Detroits?

It appears in your selective photos that you are trying to show that Jacksonville's homeless gather in the pocket park, where as by some stroke of genius detroits park is so clean and well planned that no homeless ever relax in the detroit park..


Weak article, and weak argument.

Did you actually look at the pictures or are you just assuming?

[TD*]

Also, its not that Jacksonville's park was poorly planned, it just doesnt have the same features that Detroit's has.  Detroits park does have several nice things in it, but you have to think this way, how much did it cost to create detroits park versus Jax's? On a limited budget im sure someone made the call to have a low budget nice downtown park in Jax versus an empty lot.

If you want water features and cafe's, eat downtown, then jump in the St. Johns.

[TD*]

[/quote]

Did you actually look at the pictures or are you just assuming?
[/quote]

I looked at the pictures... Also, just because a person is homeless does not mean they are worthless, go up and speak to them, open your mind.

[Ocklawaha]

WHAT? No photo of the dog droppings? It is quickly becoming a local sport to try and walk anywhere in this "park" without slipping on a pile of something. Maybe a big statue of the Georgia Bull Dog, and some fire plugs...and a shoe washing station.

OCKLAWAHA

[copperfiend]

I looked at the pictures... Also, just because a person is homeless does not mean they are worthless, go up and speak to them, open your mind.

Who said they were worthless? Are you putting words in somebody's mouth?

[rjp2008]

How can one possibly compare the two?? D-town has 3.4 million more people than the Jax metro area! One sits right in the middle of circular street junction in a city that has a much larger MSA (more $$ for parks) and the other uses a small plat in a nondescript area.

Yes, the pocket park could have been more - maybe a circular design instead - but there wasn't much to work with in terms of location and public money.

[thelakelander]

Im really not sure what this article is trying to articulate. What are the bad aspects of Jacksonville's Pocket park versus Detroits?

It appears in your selective photos that you are trying to show that Jacksonville's homeless gather in the pocket park, where as by some stroke of genius detroits park is so clean and well planned that no homeless ever relax in the detroit park..


Weak article, and weak argument.

Perhaps, you've read too much into the photographs.  It is a weak article and argument if that's the case.  Believe it or not, this is an article that's not ready to run.  I never added any text and I'm out of town right now.  So its really a miscommunication behind the scenes.

Anyway, since its up, the parks in the images have both been constructed in the last five years and both are roughly around the same size.  The point I was going to make was to attempt to drive home the fact that urban parks need to do a few things to be successful spaces:

A. They must respect and complement the surrounding land uses.
B. They must incorporate a mix of features that attract a diverse amount of users on a continuous basis.

If these two things can be carried out, then the space designed (regardless of the amount of money put into it) will be used by a large number of urban residents, workers and visitors.  Also, while I still don't agree with the decision to spend $700k on the Main Street park, its still salvagable, if the points above can be introduced at that location.

[uptowngirl]

$700K for a doggie litter box is not money well spent. There is NOTHING to do in this park. I go to the library every other day and it is either empty (what would you do?) or full of doggies going potty and their owners not picking up. The benches are't even IN the park! What is the point of the terraces? If they weren't there at least mayeb you could play a game of soccer or some Bocce. At a minimum why are there no benches or tables on any of the terraces?

[thelakelander]

How can one possibly compare the two?? D-town has 3.4 million more people than the Jax metro area! One sits right in the middle of circular street junction in a city that has a much larger MSA (more $$ for parks) and the other uses a small plat in a nondescript area.

I love these arguments because it goes to show we can make excuses for just about anything.  Detroit is a city that's in pretty bad shape and there's little to zero money flowing in from its suburbs for parks in the inner city.  Jax is in much better financial position.

Yes, the pocket park could have been more - maybe a circular design instead - but there wasn't much to work with in terms of location and public money.

Throwing money at something is not always the correct answer.  For example, if a park had to be built at this site, it could have been constructed without concrete retaining walls, brick pavers, etc.  Lay sod at ground level and add a tot lot and perhaps a picnic pavilion or two to take advantage of schools and children's groups using the library and the usage would be higher.  So cheaper investment = more usage, plus you still get the improved look for people driving by on Main Street. 

[chris]

I find it funny that the traditionally anti-urban conservatives seem to be populating this site more and more... When you live this close together, you have to work together to make things work...

The next time I read someone trying to justify this park on a budgetary point, I'm off this blog for good. Who cares if he wasted 630k, at least he didn't spend twice that and actually accomplish something great, right? That seems to be the prevailing mentality sometimes... Some people would rather not spend money at all, than on a decent community investment, so we get stuck with crap like the MSPP....

I swear, sometimes this town makes me want to sell my soul and move to Orlando with the mouse....

[Abhishek]

I agree that Detroit's park look more inviting than the MSPP. Walk score gives the MSPP a 95 out of 100. The Campus Matrius Park (CMP) gets only a 28. That said, there appears to be more businesses around CMP for people to step out of into the park to relax, eat lunch, window shop etc. Walk score however suggests that there should be more people being able to walk through, to or past the MSPP due to its proximity to restaurants, bars, library, etc.

The fact that the MSPP looks so deserted in summer may just be a heat issue. It being deserted all year round will definitely have something to do with the park being as un-inviting as it is. I agree that we dont need to pour in tons of money for fancy fountains to make people want to be at the park. There can be subtle things to do to make it safer for people to want to spend time in it. There is a library next to it, so why arent people sitting in the park reading books? Why are the trees away from the walking and sitting areas? Why cant they be among the lawn so people can sit under them when it is hot?