Water-taxi, No Boats, New Boats, WHY NOT IDEAS???

[Ocklawaha]

The pontoon boats are superior for water taxis with short trips.  They don't rock and roll in wakes.  Twin, wide apart engines make them more maneuverable.  Wide open sides means everybody gets a wonderful view and wide entry ways make loading and unloading faster.

They are also inexpensive to purchase given their passenger capacity.

I bet that they cost significantly more, but no one wants to bring that up of course... Every tiny issue has become a whinefest nowadays (even when Jax don't do wrong). Very trivial esp in direct comparison to the real problems that Jax has (occupying DT etc). Ock and many of you others may hate Walmart, but their is no denying that Walmart is efficient, rather than going over their heads.

So had you designed Disney World, you would have done nothing at all to Green Swamp, I mean, because after all, it was just perfect the way it was? I note that you often comment on sports, but I don't understand why, because the teams are fine just the way they are. You may be the only person I have every encountered who would open a gourmet restaurant and then serve boxed kraft Mac and Cheese... because it's fine just the way it is. Did you attend school? WHY? Weren't you just fine the way you were? Why improve anything? 1 + 1 + 1 might be 111, but far be it from any of us to try and correct your error. 

I don't think you have EVER understood a single one of our articles or threads on improvement for the same reasons, everything is just fine the way it is!  NONE OF THESE ARTICLES OR POSTS and none of these issues has become a 'whinefest.' These are discussions are embryonic seed planters, some will happen and some won't.

Take the issue of the 'lawn chairs on a 4 x 8' that we use as water taxi's. Sure they work and yes they are cheap, but then so is Southwest Airlines, given a choice between flying Southwest or driving, I'd probably drive... I don't like flying cattle cars. Given a choice between flying LAN Chile or driving, and I'll fly every time. Why? Because LAN Chile's fleet and service is amazing. Nobody but you suggested that this be a 'theme park' look, what I'm suggesting is that we reconstruct some of our history and create ferry's that reflect our very cool nautical past. Isaiah Hart operated a 'ferry' near a cow ford, the first business grew up as a little 'Market' under a big 'Bay' tree at the corner of Bay and Market Streets downtown. The South Jacksonville Ferry Company built piers with entertainment complexes (think The Landing) on both sides of the river and then along with investor crossover from the streetcar company, developed Dixieland Park. I wondered if anyone else also thought such a salute to our past would be attractive, maybe more attractive then our '4x8 fleet.'

"You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'" (George Bernard Shaw) I really feel sorry about such a lack of imagination, that perception that everything said is an attack or an insult, that must be a hell of a way to live. Do us all a favor the next time you think we need a better running back, consider that some of us think we need better ________________ (fill in the blank).

[Overstreet]

I'm still trying to understand why they got rid of the last vendor and their boats.  Do they run the taxi and limo service at the airport?   License, regulate but why sole source or even government run?

You know that if the city runs it profit will elude the project because Government is non-profit, literally.

[I-10east]

Nice rambling tirade Ock, now time to be logical....

1. You refuse to bring up the financial aspect of these new boats. The two current water taxis costed the city 333,000; How much would 'preferred' two pontoon boats cost? Can the city afford improved vessels? *dodge questions of course*

2. The only people that give a DAMN about new and improved boats are nautical freaks like yourself. The general public (even most out of towners) could care less about some damn speedier pontoon boat.

When I was young, I wanted a Nintendo (NES) My Mom couldn't afford it. Simple as that.

[Ocklawaha]

Nice rambling tirade Ock, now time to be logical....

1. You refuse to bring up the financial aspect of these new boats. The two current water taxis costed the city 333,000; How much would 'preferred' two pontoon boats cost? Can the city afford improved vessels? *dodge questions of course*

Has ANYONE asked that question? Have they run the numbers on what improved boats could or couldn't do for downtown? Would evening cruises in an air-conditioned boat be more popular? How much more popular? Seems to me I haven't dodged the question, you've dodged the answers, because it's so much easier to be completely ameliorate yourself by doing nothing. Don't dream, don't improve, don't engineer, don't rock the boat.

2. The only people that give a DAMN about new and improved boats are nautical freaks like yourself. The general public (even most out of towners) could care less about some damn speedier pontoon boat.

Where is you data that says no one cares about nautical things? Based on this then I guess we now have you on record as being against the Charles Adams and the Jacksonville Maritime Museum, and why not?  "The general public (even most out of towners) could care less about some damn speedier pontoon boat."

When I was young, I wanted a Nintendo (NES) My Mom couldn't afford it. Simple as that.

Why would you have wanted one, weren't you just completely satisfied with the status quo?

[I-10east]

One more thing. I don't know about ya'll, but when I'm on a scenic vessel, I like being at a nice leisurely pace. Who cares about maneuverability on a short route? What are we doing here, navigating the Strait of Magellan? I'm done with this topic, LOL 

[fieldafm]

You know that if the city runs it profit will elude the project because Government is non-profit, literally.

COJ won't be running it for a profit. They will be leasing it for essentially nothing (I think $1) to a hand-picked operator, and that vendor keeps all fares collected while covering their own fuel and labor costs... all while not having to come out of pocket to purchase the boats.

Frankly, I don't think it is an emergency for taxpayers to pay for boats (that they won't be able to offload later) all because COJ botched the RFP process for almost 6 months (btw, the only vendor qualified during the last RFP was the same vendor that just left). Two wrongs don't make a right.

Do the water taxis provide a complementary transportation service downtown? Yes. Will downtown cease to function without water taxis? No.  Should taxpayers be in the water taxi business? No.

[urbanlibertarian]

You know that if the city runs it profit will elude the project because Government is non-profit, literally.

COJ won't be running it for a profit. They will be leasing it for essentially nothing (I think $1) to a hand-picked operator, and that vendor keeps all fares collected while covering their own fuel and labor costs... all while not having to come out of pocket to purchase the boats.

Frankly, I don't think it is an emergency for taxpayers to pay for boats (that they won't be able to offload later) all because COJ botched the RFP process for almost 6 months (btw, the only vendor qualified during the last RFP was the same vendor that just left). Two wrongs don't make a right.

Do the water taxis provide a complementary transportation service downtown? Yes. Will downtown cease to function without water taxis? No.  Should taxpayers be in the water taxi business? No.

I couldn't have said it better.

[urbanlibertarian]

Jim bailey has some good history of the water taxi (about a third of the way into it) in this opinion piece although I don't agree with his conclusions:

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=543136

[I-10east]

So had you designed Disney World

I had to bring this up. Funny that you said Disney World. I love visiting theme parks and to me, Disney World is one of the most overrated. Many of it's attractions are severely archaic IMO (like Space Mtn). I've been on most of the rides in WDW, and one hand I can count the attractions that I was wowed with Expedition Everest (when the cave Yeti was working) and Tower of Terror with a few others being just okay. Even it's newest attraction the 'Seven Dwarfs Mine Train' POV looks eh.

IMO Universal has blown WDW out of the water (proof with the attendance) with the Harry Potter section. I was far more impressed with the theming in parks like Dollywood,  Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and others. You say that I love 'resting on laurels' that's the epitome of WDW. I'm NOT anti-family ride either, there are plenty of parks that does family rides better than WDW. But many commercially brainwashed people love the mouse, and think Disney can't do no wrong, so that's all that matters.

[IrvAdams]

^^I've lived here all my life, been to Disney just a handful of times. I like natural parks and attractions, or exploring cities, etc. instead of rides and theme parks.

[strider]

Frankly, the only thing appearance wise of a water taxi that matters is that it is clean and neat and not worn out looking.  Past that, I do not think anyone using it as a Taxi cares much.  Using it as an excursion boat is different and I do not think we are or need to be talking about that here now.

How the Mayor's office handled this entire matter is a bit disturbing and obviously it was not handled in a proper and open manor.  That said, I have to give some credit to the Mayor's office for recognizing that it is indeed important to Jacksonville and at least taking steps to insure it stays as a offered service.

I now only hope that after City Council and the Mayor's office gets done with pointing fingers and yelling at each other that then they then can sit down and fix it so we tax payers can have a water taxi service that is reasonable and do it quickly without anymore of the drama than absolutely necessary.

[fieldafm]

Great job by Council tonight rejecting this boondoggle of a 'plan' for City-run water taxis.

[Tacachale]

Great job by Council tonight rejecting this boondoggle of a 'plan' for City-run water taxis.

+1.

[Noone]

Great job by Council tonight rejecting this boondoggle of a 'plan' for City-run water taxis.

+1.

+2

[Ocklawaha]

Just for the record I-10E, I agree with IrvAdams on this one, perhaps with a more radical twist, I personally HATE Universal, WB, Seaworld and that damn rat they came in on!

I'd rather visit a real attraction like Juniper Springs, Bulow Plantation, Kingsley, Ft. George Island, Centre Street or dining at Denoel's French Pastry Shop.

I'd love to see someone make a bid to operate the so-called taxi, more like the mini-excursion boat that it is. I think a theme wrapped around our history and the old South Jacksonville Ferry Company, Jacksonville St. Augustine and Halifax River Railroad Ferry Company, or the Arlington Ferry Company would be amazing. If y'all have ever been to Staten Island, chances are you've ridden a large pedestrian ferry, imagine scaling that way down, but retaining 'The Landing' theme, at both banks, snack bars, historic displays, etc... The main landings could look something like the Glass Bottom Boat landing at Silver Springs. I just think there is SO MUCH MORE that could be done with this and I'd bet it would be even more popular if it spoke to our heritage and offered something more then a trip across the drink. As others have said, we've got from Memorial Park in Riverside to Metropolitan Park with at least one downtown stop on each bank to work with. During special events that could be expanded from the Ortega River to the Zoo Dock on the Trout.

What we have here is a failure to imaginate!