6 or More Skyscrapers are needed Downtown.

[rjp2008]

The "skyline" is not the problem. The "groundline" is. Abandoned, dusty old buildings do not invite new businesses/tennants/people walking by.

When things improve on the street level, THEN big time investors might be interested in putting up some more 'scrapes.

La Villa could be a tremendous area if more was invested in it and more middle class folks were attracted to it for example.

[Jason]

Here are some of the images I promised earlier in the thread:


First off, Riverwatch Tower










Here are a group of images that show the 5 major vacant lots in the CBD covered with nice new towers.  Completely different skyline.  Also includes many of the failed proposals and a riverfront convention center of my own.

































And Lastly, a comparison of today's skyline to the future skyline if all of the proposals would have been built...

Today




Tomorrow

[apvbguy]

those pics are real pretty and it would be great if these buildings were ever built, but there is something called economic reality and that reality appears to be missing from your dreams.
In order for buildings to be built people need to invest money for the building of them and in order to attract investment monies these projects need to prove their viability, their ability to provide a return on investment, these planned buildings have to attract tenants.
Nobody, especially now, is going to build anything on "spec" so unless a building has tenants in place before being built, not much will get built.
Like it or not the urban core, downtown JAX is not a commercial real estate hot bed of activity and not too many companies are in expansion mode right now and companies looking to relocate aren't being attracted to the core.
Keep dreaming, your ideas are great but factor reality into those dreams

[Tripoli1711]

APV... I agree with everything you have said, but my guess is that these models were made for fun to put his dream into visible form for the rest of us.  I would love for all of those buildings to be built too.  I think we all understand it's not going to happen, not anytime soon at least.  But I don't see how he can 'inject economic reality' into what he has done, and there's no need to demand it.  Just view it for what it is.. something to stimulate your dreams for what downtown could be in the future.  Most people do not define a dream as being laden with fiscal realities and market demographics, etc..

[apvbguy]

APV... I agree with everything you have said, but my guess is that these models were made for fun to put his dream into visible form for the rest of us.  I would love for all of those buildings to be built too.  I think we all understand it's not going to happen, not anytime soon at least.  But I don't see how he can 'inject economic reality' into what he has done, and there's no need to demand it.  Just view it for what it is.. something to stimulate your dreams for what downtown could be in the future.  Most people do not define a dream as being laden with fiscal realities and market demographics, etc..

if there were no dreamers there would be no innovations, see edison, he dreamt and then created the electric power industry that we have today. All I am saying is that his visions for the core are great, what is missing is the occupants for these buildings. And that is the crux of many of D/T Jax's issues, what can be done to get people excited enough to come d/t? The slipshod practices of the past attempts don't seem to have done anything to enhance the area, new lighting, sidewalks and streetscapes are all nice but they are playing to an empty house, what needs to be done is create a focused plan to attract new players into the market and create a critical mass that is needed to expand the viability of the core.
It is a chicken and egg situation and the powers in charge need to break that impasse

[Tripoli1711]

True point.  You are exactly right about the streetscape, etc.. at the moment it would just be something to fascinate the homeless people.  I dont know if it is the chicken or the egg.. but I think downtown is ready for a lot more in the way of nightlife and entertainment.  I do think build it and they will come is correct in this instance.  Springfield, San Marco and Riverside are all so close and with intelligent public transportation as well as personal vehicles, they could be at any downtown destination in a snap. 

[apvbguy]

True point.  You are exactly right about the streetscape, etc.. at the moment it would just be something to fascinate the homeless people.  I dont know if it is the chicken or the egg.. but I think downtown is ready for a lot more in the way of nightlife and entertainment.  I do think build it and they will come is correct in this instance.  Springfield, San Marco and Riverside are all so close and with intelligent public transportation as well as personal vehicles, they could be at any downtown destination in a snap. 

night life and entertainmant are fine things to want and have however they are not the foundation that a viable and vibrant core can be built on

[Tripoli1711]

I admit I am pretty ignorant at how to build an urban core, so I'm sure you are right.  But I think there is a psychological issue with downtown for a lot of people in the city.  Growing up at the beaches, lots of people only go downtown for court, and now for Jaguars games.  I guess I'm thinking the perception that downtown is a thriving place, brought about by entertainment and nightlife, would create a buzz that would establish some foundation to build on.  As I said, this isn't my line.. so I may be way off.

[Jason]

those pics are real pretty and it would be great if these buildings were ever built, but there is something called economic reality and that reality appears to be missing from your dreams.
In order for buildings to be built people need to invest money for the building of them and in order to attract investment monies these projects need to prove their viability, their ability to provide a return on investment, these planned buildings have to attract tenants.
Nobody, especially now, is going to build anything on "spec" so unless a building has tenants in place before being built, not much will get built.
Like it or not the urban core, downtown JAX is not a commercial real estate hot bed of activity and not too many companies are in expansion mode right now and companies looking to relocate aren't being attracted to the core.
Keep dreaming, your ideas are great but factor reality into those dreams

If you want to see some dreaming I did a series of Google models that filled up about every vacant lot in the downtown area.   

Economic reality almost gave us the first significant modification to the CBD skyline (Riverwatch) since the BofA tower was finished in the 90's but that too was lost when Kuhn went under.  Add to that all of the towers that did make it to construction during the boom: San Marco Place, Strand, Peninsula, Berkman II, Fidelity, Everbank, and the multiple renovations to existing structures.  These projects all proved that there is an economic reality to the dreams I posted.  My original vision was 5 or 6 new towers in the CBD skyline and 6 towers were actually built (although not in the same spot nor mass).  The economic downturn also stopped 3 more significant towers from being built!  From what I can see, there was a pretty good bit of economic reality incorporated into my dream, I just got some heights and locations wrong.  Maybe I should create another image with the newest towers occupying the lots my dream towers now cover.   

[heights unknown]

I like your dream(s) Jason.......yes, that's more like it.  Nothing wrong with dreams.  As someone said, we know that the depictions in the artist renderings may not happen soon, or at all, but its nice to see what could have been, what could be, or what might be.  I live in West Central Florida now, (close to Tampa), and it makes me jealous when I see Tampa building up and building out in its downtown and Central core, speeding away and looking at Jax in the rear view mirror.  Would be nice though to see stretched density in our (Jax) downtown core.  When the economy changes, maybe we'll all of a sudden get 8 to 10 such towers approved almost over night.

Heights Unknown

[David]

*clicks on landmarks menu*

*plops down 3 sear towers*

[apvbguy]

*clicks on landmarks menu*

*plops down 3 sear towers*

the amount of people who come downtown for shopping, entertainment or anything other than going to work wouldn't be able to fill a sears store let alone a sears tower.

[Jason]

Just for you Apvbguy   

[BridgeTroll]

How about a really tall sculpture... um... say... A giant Seminole indian... or Andrew Jackson...

[Doctor_K]

LOL @ Jason.  You're a sick, sick man.  From another, related thread:  Jason - whatever happened to those promised SimCity shots of Jax?  Talk about '6 more skyscrapers' indeed!