Dependence on Food Stamps

[GoldenEst82]

A quote of disputed origin I often think of when considering the red state/poverty rate overlap:
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

Though I am not a fan of the ways in which Marxist political theory has been executed to date.

[southsider1015]

Im still trying to find out why you want to subsidize Walmart's profits, but you don't believe that they should have to make those profits the old fashioned way--- by paying a living wage to their own employees.

No, I don't believe the American taxpayers should be subsidizing Walmart's profits.  Or any company that pays below a livable wage, whatever that amount is.  I just don't agree that raising the minimum wage solves the problem.  It does temporarily, until prices catch up, then we have to raise it again and again.  The amount of low skill, cheap labor isn't going to change until we automate these jobs.  These jobs shouldn't be expected to  be permanent, and should be considered temporary until they can move up.  If someone plans to work 40 hours per week on a minimum wage job for the rest of the life, then they are subjecting themselves to a life of poverty.
I know you don't like my links but....
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/10/top-5-myths-about-the-minimum-wage

[bill]

Actually, no one argues that raising the minimum wage heightens unemployment, (other than the febrile social darwinist crowd, obviously) and it is a silly proposition, to be perfectly honest. The additional revenue of working class people immediately goes back into circulation in the economy instead of being pulled out of it and placed in overseas banks. The resulting stimulus to the economy actually encourages employment (and has done so EVERY time the minimum wage has been increased).

And two opinion pieces, one from Forbes (for the love of god) and the other is from chattanooga's "Southern Economic Journal" are hardly proof of 'research'.  In fact, to be honest, your first link was a little embarrassing in its attempt to create a highly parsed argument about the effect of raising minimum wages for the chronically unemployed.

Because: duh.  The chronically unemployed are obviously not going to benefit from wage increases.

And this still doesnt have any bearing on american taxpayers subsidizing the profits of the Walden family.  Its obvious that you dont care much for actual conservative ideas if you think that the wealthy are in need of government assistance to bolster their billion dollar fortunes.

This is great news. Lets raise it to $100 per hour and all of our problems will be solved.

dumb

[Jaxson]

A quote of disputed origin I often think of when considering the red state/poverty rate overlap:
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

Though I am not a fan of the ways in which Marxist political theory has been executed to date.

+1

I agree that our 'lift ourselves up by our bootstraps' mentality creates an attitude of loathing of the working poor.  How many times do we scold our children into studying so they don't end up working in the service industry?  How many times do we quietly point out service workers to our children and silently cluck in a self-satisfied way, "See what happens when you don't make something of yourself."?  Instead of viewing these people as workers who put in an honest day's work, we tend to belittle their contribution as if their work is somehow less noble than what we do everyday.  We complain when they ask for improvements to their working conditions and we are quicker to condemn them for somehow being anti-capitalist or anti-American.  So, it should be no surprise that many of these low-wage workers with little to no benefits end up on the government dole in some form.  We are paying for them in one form or another....

[JHAT76]

Actually, no one argues that raising the minimum wage heightens unemployment, (other than the febrile social darwinist crowd, obviously) and it is a silly proposition, to be perfectly honest. The additional revenue of working class people immediately goes back into circulation in the economy instead of being pulled out of it and placed in overseas banks. The resulting stimulus to the economy actually encourages employment (and has done so EVERY time the minimum wage has been increased).

And two opinion pieces, one from Forbes (for the love of god) and the other is from chattanooga's "Southern Economic Journal" are hardly proof of 'research'.  In fact, to be honest, your first link was a little embarrassing in its attempt to create a highly parsed argument about the effect of raising minimum wages for the chronically unemployed.

Because: duh.  The chronically unemployed are obviously not going to benefit from wage increases.

And this still doesnt have any bearing on american taxpayers subsidizing the profits of the Walden family.  Its obvious that you dont care much for actual conservative ideas if you think that the wealthy are in need of government assistance to bolster their billion dollar fortunes.

This is great news. Lets raise it to $100 per hour and all of our problems will be solved.

dumb

or just keep paying walmarts employees for them.  Since you know, the taxpayers have a vested interest in making sure the corporation has no actual costs and just keeps money for free.

In your expert opinion what is the optimal minimum wage?  Why is $10/hr better than $20/hr? I we are naming a price lets make it a good one.  How often should we change this?

[BridgeTroll]

I dont have an expert opinion on the minimum wage.  But I dont think that America should pay for walmarts slave wage labor policies.

Let them pay for their own labor.  Its shameful.

Walmart is hardly alone... every mom an pop store and restaurant is paying the same wages as Walmart... but with fewer benefits.  Walmart is simply an easy target... the "broad side of a barn" so to speak.  congrats... you hit it...

[bill]

Actually, no one argues that raising the minimum wage heightens unemployment, (other than the febrile social darwinist crowd, obviously) and it is a silly proposition, to be perfectly honest. The additional revenue of working class people immediately goes back into circulation in the economy instead of being pulled out of it and placed in overseas banks. The resulting stimulus to the economy actually encourages employment (and has done so EVERY time the minimum wage has been increased).

And two opinion pieces, one from Forbes (for the love of god) and the other is from chattanooga's "Southern Economic Journal" are hardly proof of 'research'.  In fact, to be honest, your first link was a little embarrassing in its attempt to create a highly parsed argument about the effect of raising minimum wages for the chronically unemployed.

Because: duh.  The chronically unemployed are obviously not going to benefit from wage increases.

And this still doesnt have any bearing on american taxpayers subsidizing the profits of the Walden family.  Its obvious that you dont care much for actual conservative ideas if you think that the wealthy are in need of government assistance to bolster their billion dollar fortunes.

This is great news. Lets raise it to $100 per hour and all of our problems will be solved.

dumb

or just keep paying walmarts employees for them.  Since you know, the taxpayers have a vested interest in making sure the corporation has no actual costs and just keeps money for free.

Yyou acknowledge that is dumb, that is a start.

[bill]

Actually, no one argues that raising the minimum wage heightens unemployment, (other than the febrile social darwinist crowd, obviously) and it is a silly proposition, to be perfectly honest. The additional revenue of working class people immediately goes back into circulation in the economy instead of being pulled out of it and placed in overseas banks. The resulting stimulus to the economy actually encourages employment (and has done so EVERY time the minimum wage has been increased).

I will just quote you again. Why not just double the wage of all workers? Does the minimum wage spend more wisely than ceos?
dumb meet dumber

[BridgeTroll]

I dont have an expert opinion on the minimum wage.  But I dont think that America should pay for walmarts slave wage labor policies.

Let them pay for their own labor.  Its shameful.

Walmart is hardly alone... every mom an pop store and restaurant is paying the same wages as Walmart... but with fewer benefits.  Walmart is simply an easy target... the "broad side of a barn" so to speak.  congrats... you hit it...

It is actually the original post of the article, if that matters to you.

But sure, apparently the entire economy is dependent on welfare, according to you and a few others in this thread.

Without the welfare, no one's business---large or small, apparently-----has a chance of working.

The economy is not dependent on welfare... and neither is Walmart, Lowes, Publix, WD, Starbux, McDs, Olive Garden, or name a business with a cashier.  The wage scale is what the market bears.  Means testing for wages is unlikely to ever happen... 

[ChriswUfGator]

But I think the point is, what if the market only bears it because we're artificially supporting it with government programs? That's not the market anymore, is it?

[BridgeTroll]

But I think the point is, what if the market only bears it because we're artificially supporting it with government programs? That's not the market anymore, is it?

Soooo... it is not really Walmart then is it?  It is virtually every single retailer in the country.  You might gain a bit more traction (at least with me) if those proposing means based wage testing bemoaned the entire system of retail rather than demonizing one... 

[finehoe]

The wage scale is what the market bears. 

Free market fundamentalism tends to fail on a simple point. Define "market". Now tell me where you see that outside of a few narrow examples like a flea market.

Means testing for wages is unlikely to ever happen...

This is a straw man; no one has said anything about "means testing".

[finehoe]

and you might find a little more clarity if you stopped conflating the 'mom and pops' that you introduced into the conversation with a multinational corporation that keeps billions of dollars for its founding family every year.

Indeed:

most low-wage workers aren't employed by small businesses or mom-and-pop operations, but instead by large corporations that have enjoyed healthy profits amid a sluggish economy

http://nelp.3cdn.net/24befb45b36b626a7a_v2m6iirxb.pdf

[BridgeTroll]

and you might find a little more clarity if you stopped conflating the 'mom and pops' that you introduced into the conversation with a multinational corporation that keeps billions of dollars for its founding family every year.

Indeed:

most low-wage workers aren't employed by small businesses or mom-and-pop operations, but instead by large corporations that have enjoyed healthy profits amid a sluggish economy

http://nelp.3cdn.net/24befb45b36b626a7a_v2m6iirxb.pdf

So you are surprised that most workers are employed by big corporations??  I would also presume big corporations employ more female workers than small ones... I am sure they lead in other categories also.

[bill]

anything to avoid addressing the central issue eh, bridge troll?

Umm like why not raise the minimum wage to $100? The stimulus and all.

Ya know the central issue eh?