Food Trucks To Be Legislated Out of Existence?

[thelakelander]

Thanks for the update!

[Keith-N-Jax]

Yes thanks for the update.

[ronchamblin]

That's where a perceptive and determined mayor usually steps in ..  and other leaders, such as in the city council, to provide insight and guidance to an environment weakened and partially destroyed decades ago .. 

And THIS is the group you are hitching your wagon to?  I oppose your version of protectionism in the guise of "vibrancy". 

Thanks Lake and stephendare, for the feedback and criticism.  It allows me to move closer to what might be a better opinion about any food truck legislation related to the core.  After I address BT, I shall respond to you both. 

BT / BravoTango / _...   _    , I don't mean to suggest that any current mayor, or set of council members, can be depended upon to produce the most effective decisions to achieve infill and core vibrancy.  I only suggest that these office holders are in the best position to affect the best decisions.  I imagine the ideal, which would include a strong and determined mayor, and a group of council members able to focus on the important long term goal of bringing our city core to one of density and vibrancy.  But .. no absolutely, I am not hitching my wagon to the current group.  There is hope however.  Sometimes office holders change.  I can see by your last statement that I've failed to make clear my position, and the cause of it.

So, let me ask you a question BT.  Is it true that a city core having say, 500 buildings within it, would be considered more vibrant, more "normal", more robust, more "complete"; that is, revitalized, if 480 of those buildings were fully occupied, and that the core would not be considered as having these desirable qualities, and not revitalized .. mostly desolate, if only 200 of the buildings were occupied?   

I will anticipate that your answer will be "yes" because I suspect that you will understand that a building is occupied by people, and further, that both the occupied buildings, and the people living and working within them, provide two fundamental conditions which allow us to determine the level of desolation or vibrancy that exists in a city core.  We can measure a city core's level of revitalization and vibrancy simply by determining the ratio of occupied buildings within the core,to the entire population of buildings in the core.  Ninety-five percent building occupancy would I suspect, allow most to judge that a city core has returned to full infill, and thus, a revitalized and vibrant condition.

Before I continue BT, can you, if you have the time, let me know if you agree with my statements above, and if you do not, can you enlighten me as to my errors.   

[thelakelander]

So, let me ask you a question BT.  Is it true that a city core having say, 500 buildings with it, would be considered more vibrant, more "normal", more robust, more "complete"; that is, revitalized, if 480 of those buildings were fully occupied, and that the core would not be considered as having these desirable qualities, and not revitalized .. mostly desolate, if only 200 of the buildings were occupied?

Ron, I think the problem with many identifying with comments or statements like this is that they have nothing to do with food trucks. No proof has been presented locally or in any other community across the country that would suggest that food trucks result in closed restaurants and decline of downtown environments. Until that type of material surfaces, major assumptions and tales are being stretched to connect them together.

[ronchamblin]

So, let me ask you a question BT.  Is it true that a city core having say, 500 buildings with it, would be considered more vibrant, more "normal", more robust, more "complete"; that is, revitalized, if 480 of those buildings were fully occupied, and that the core would not be considered as having these desirable qualities, and not revitalized .. mostly desolate, if only 200 of the buildings were occupied?

Ron, I think the problem with many identifying with comments or statements like this is that they have nothing to do with food trucks. No proof has been presented locally or in any other community across the country that would suggest that food trucks result in closed restaurants and decline of downtown environments. Until that type of material surfaces, major assumptions and tales are being stretched to connect them together.

I appreciate and digest your line of thinking Lake.  However, please be patient with me as I present my case.  There are times when solutions and the right decisions arrive via the assimilation of what is known, with sound logic.  Some problems are unique, and thus cannot be solved by 100 % reliance on history.  Besides, the evidence you speak of, or the absence of it, is perhaps vague at most, and certainly is not recorded with the accuracy as presented in rigid experiments.  I hesitate to rely excessively on statements such as "there is no evidence".  Therefore, I must take a different tack to problem solving.

Eventually, you will discover that my statements are quite related to the issue of food trucks in the core.  Let's see if BT is going to answer my question.   

[Charles Hunter]

So, Ron, no Food Trucks until there are 500 fully occupied buildings downtown?  Do you have any minimum standards on how big those 500 buildings have to be?  One-story bungalows?  Burj-Dubai clones, all?

[ronchamblin]

They should be at least four story buildings, and at least 100 feet by 100 feet, and each should have a whorehouse in the basement. 

[Charles Hunter]

oooh, nice touch (so to speak)

[thelakelander]

Halting progress, more meetings ahead for bill regulating Jacksonville food trucks

Over about two and a half hours, truck operators and city officials read a 10-page draft ordinance line-by-line, debating the need for the city to set rules about subjects ranging from truck parking to whether food that's sold could be frozen for later use.

Parts of the bill were scrapped completely, such as language about trucks not receiving electricity or water from fixed buildings.

Parts of the bill were eyed for strengthening, so that insurance requirements for truck operators were suggested to rise from $200,000 to $1 million. That was tabled so a city risk-management administrator could be consulted first.

full article: http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-03-12/story/halting-progress-more-meetings-ahead-bill-regulating-jacksonville-food

[ronchamblin]

"I just want to know where we can park," Kline said, noting vendors are often unsure about the city's rules for them."

The above was also in the article.

Just as rules can be unfair and excessive as a consequence poor understanding of the dynamics involved, so can their absence, for the same reasons.

The discussion on this forum should offer a tendency to clarify important aspects of the issues surrounding the food trucks in the core.

Well .... I guess Bravo Tango isn't going to answer my question.   Oh well.

[thelakelander]

I could be wrong but I don't believe trucks can legally set up and serve on public streets. If CM Brown wants regulations for further clarity, the legislation should allow them to under certain circumstances.

[tufsu1]

oooh, nice touch (so to speak)

[BridgeTroll]

"I just want to know where we can park," Kline said, noting vendors are often unsure about the city's rules for them."

The above was also in the article.

Just as rules can be unfair and excessive as a consequence poor understanding of the dynamics involved, so can their absence, for the same reasons.

The discussion on this forum should offer a tendency to clarify important aspects of the issues surrounding the food trucks in the core.

Well .... I guess Bravo Tango isn't going to answer my question.   Oh well.

Lol... sorry Ron... unlike most I try to limit my "online" life.  I much prefer face to face interaction and therefore turn off devices at various times.

The answer to you question is of course ...True.  Of course this answer literally has nothing to do with "Mobile food vendors".  These vendors are a part of life in every city around the world.  They add vibrancy... they add choice... they add competition... they add employment... they add a touch of creativeness and whimsy not otherwise found during our dreary boring workdays.

You and others are attempting to legislate against a problem a few seem to percieve but really does not exist.  There is no evidence that I am aware of that shows the trucks are a detriment to business downtown.  In fact... some of the B&Ms downtown seem to embrace and encourage the trucks. 

You have presented theories and lengthy dissertations full of assumptions... but no more.

[Bridges]

Some problems are unique, and thus cannot be solved by 100 % reliance on history.  Besides, the evidence you speak of, or the absence of it, is perhaps vague at most, and certainly is not recorded with the accuracy as presented in rigid experiments.  I hesitate to rely excessively on statements such as "there is no evidence".

This should become Jacksonville's motto.  It's a great line of thought for why we keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

[ronchamblin]

Thanks BT.  At work now.  Will get back to you.  Have a super day.