Food Trucks To Be Legislated Out of Existence?

[fieldafm]

Wouldn't it be easier for all the suffering non-mobile downtown sandwich shops to just ditch their leases and start up super cheap new food truck operations?

Why do that when you can just hire a lobbyist and regulate your competition out of existance?

[IrvAdams]

I can see it now...Hemming Park ringed with colorful food trucks at lunchtime. Think of the variety! Picture all the patrons, free to choose  from a wide selection of food. Enjoying the beautiful Jacksonville sunshine on a gorgeous spring day.

Oops...it's Hemming Park. They removed all the benches and chairs? Guess I'll have to eat standing up...

[Shine]

To some extent, more of a product category in one place tends to stimulate consumption of those products – concept called "industry demand."

How many retail clothing stores are at Town Center?  While they are competitors, the location becomes a known and desired market place for that retail experience.  On the same note, food trucks and other entertainment options downtown may not be a competitive problem, but part of stimulating the area further as an entertainment destination.   The problem with DT is it has lost its self-sustainability regarding population and consumption.  Increasing these things may be the catalyst that brings it back to a self-sustainable critical mass.  And as for the bill, this has been the best promotion of food trucks that you could ask for – a solid week of coverage – and, I am getting hungrier every time I hear it!

[Noone]

The Food Truck Cartel

[obsidian]

I've posted a new map showing the streets that at least partially comply with provision of the draft ordinance.  My restaurant data only geocoded at 50% so there's a lot of restaurants remaining to reduce the possibilities.  Site inspection is required to determine how suitable the streets are for food trucks in relation to the other restrictions in the ordinance, but at least it give a starting frame of reference.

FYI, here is the metadata for the map: Layer displays streets that meet partial requirements as outlined in a draft proposed ordinance, Jacksonville, FL.  The streets comply with Sec. 250.117(e), being located greater than 500 feet from single family residential dwellings; being located greater than 500 feet from residentially zoned neighborhoods, commercially zoned neighborhoods (CN) or residential subdivisions.

The streets partially comply with Sec. 250.1201(b), being located within commercial or industrial zoning.

The streets partially comply with Sec. 250.1201(d)(1), having a sidewalk.

The streets comply with Sec. 250.1201(d)(9), being greater than 300 feet from the property line of single family residential dwellings and restaurants.

Other measurement restrictions of the ordinance require site inspection to determine compliance.

http://courtdocmaps.com/communitymaps.html

[IrvAdams]

^^That's an interesting app, a very useful tool. Thanks for the input. I assume as parameters are adjusted, you can alter and redraw it without much work? Is this an expensive program?

[obsidian]

^^That's an interesting app, a very useful tool. Thanks for the input. I assume as parameters are adjusted, you can alter and redraw it without much work? Is this an expensive program?

In this instance, there is quite a bit of work that preceded the street map.  Some changes would require starting over, for example if the 300 foot distance from single family residential property lines is used in lieu of 500' or for b&m measurement the front door is used rather than the property line.  Adjusting the street map for bus stops, fire hydrants, etc. is less complicated.  Adjusting for curb cuts, crosswalks and the like would be very difficult as those changes would require manually editing each street segment.

The online map is a web extension of a desktop GIS system I use.  Most of the work required for the maps was done at the desktop level.  GIS software generally is on the expensive side as it is professional level software, but the biggest challenge is learning how to fully use it.

[Samk11]

I would hate to see the b & m go out of business. I enjoy spending my lunch break relaxing with co workers inside an established restaurants. The Quiznos has been there so many years and the owner is nice and friendly. It would suck if Jacksonville lost one of their last Quiznos as many of them have shut down. Firehouse subs shut down. Subway seems to be steady. Pita Pit is the new one that just opened. There are a lot of good independent restaurants in downtown that need support seeing how our downtown is not as vibrant as other cities. Even the landing is dead 

[thelakelander]

Food trucks have the ability to generate extra foot traffic to help existing B&Ms. Many grow into new B&Ms themselves. Hell, looking at the timeline of the DIA's plan, we'll need trucks and everything else down there if we want to see major improvement this decade. As for Quiznos, the entire chain is dying. Trucks or not, don't put money on it surviving long term.

[ronchamblin]

 
The discussion about the food trucks causes me to offer more clarity as to my position.  For example, there is the questions of "food trucks in Jacksonville", and "food trucks in the city core".  I intended to convey that I approved of food trucks "outside of the city core", but that we should be concerned about having lots of food trucks in the "city core".

About being "unique", my intention was that the "city core" was unique, having special problems, concerns, and solutions, but that Jacksonville "was not unique", especially regarding the presence of food trucks within it.

Therefore ... food trucks in Jacksonville gets a big "yes" from me, which is what I intended.  However, food trucks (unrestrained) in the city core .. well, we should be cautious, as it might not be the best thing for long term efforts to revitalize.   

My wish to restrict food trucks in the "city core" is not all about a fear of competition, as some like to suggest.  I love  competition.  It increases one's energy, makes the game more interesting, and ultimately improves profits and business strength.  If it was only me .... bring on the bookmobiles and food trucks.  Competition causes one to fear ..... to look critically upon oneself and one's business, and then to remove cause for fear by improving, by whatever means.

So, one might ask ...why anyone would vote yes to food trucks in areas "outside" of the city core, but vote to restrict food trucks "in" the city core.

I, and others, have looked upon the revitalization effort of the "city core" as a distinct problem.  Most problems are structured so that there are fundamental causes ...  and other causes, less fundamental, but attached to the problem nevertheless.

First of all, whereas many are arguing for "food trucks in the core", I am focusing on and arguing for, "real progress in revitalizing the city core".  So the question might be "What does having food trucks in the city core have to do with achieving the goal of self-sustained vibrancy and infill?"

Clarification!!  I support having food trucks in the city core during special events, even if it is a food truck rally, as this makes good sense.  The B & M places simply cannot keep up with the demand.  Those who attend the events demand good and quick service.

If having food trucks in the core on a daily basis ultimately promotes core revitalization and infill, then I would say ... go for it.  If we were to compare Art Walk, the Jazz Festival, Football Games, One Spark, and Food Trucks, we would find that all have something in common.  They all bring people into the city core for varying periods, but none of these do anything substantial regarding gains in building infill, permanent leases, building purchases and renovations, new business, or new residents into the core.  Look at recent decades. 

Those who somehow give import to the statement that "current restaurant owners opening in Riverside etc.. were at one time food truck operations" .. I say wonderful for them ... but... so?.  These fellows have taken the easy route by opening a B & M in an already vibrant outlying area.  Why not do something hard .. challenging?  I cannot be overly impressed until these food truck heroes open a B & M in the city core.   

Although Art Walk, Jazz Festival ... even food trucks on a daily basis in the core... have somewhat positive impacts on the city core ... nothing of import happens regarding the goal of achieving genuine and sustained vibrancy and infill until somebody .. anybody... food truck operators or not ... opens B & M establishments in the city core. 

Those who wish to invade the city core on a daily basis with food trucks are going to kill struggling B & M ... not mine however, as we are less vulnerable, having a bookstore/cafe combo.

Okay... let's say that we get the food trucks into the core in large quantity, the food truck invasion.  This will not only cause some core restaurants to fail .. but it will make it undesirable for new B & M to open in the core.

The point is that the "killing off" of existing B & M would be fine "IF" these brave food truck operators would "Open" a B & M in the core.  The objective is not to support any existing B & M operations in the core by preventing competition.  Let them fail if mediocrity exists.  But if anyone, such as the food truck operators, invade and kill, then they should "replace" what they've killed by opening up a B & M.

And this gets to another concern about the food trucks.  We could, if we are not careful, end up with a population of food trucks in the core, and very few B & M operations.  If we allow this to happen, we have failed again regarding progress toward vibrancy and infill.  Keep the trucks out of the core .... let these truck fellows learn their business outside the core, and then, those who feel they have the ability and stamina (as with Jerry Moran of La Cena and me) ... those who are brave, let them open a B & M in the core.

The second part of my concern is that ... any system .... effort..... area .....city.... budget.....  project .. has a limited amount of energy to achieve its objectives.  Wasting energy in directions not directly related to achieving solid progress toward the important goal .... inclines to  stagnation ... and a failure to achieve the goal.  Applying paint to a weakened structure, hoping to somehow save it, when attention to the fundamental structure is needed, is wasteful, and will ensure the failure of it. 

Art Walk, the Jazz Festival, One Spark, and the food trucks etc , although positives and much needed.. are paint on a weakened structure.  To relax in any way ... to give excessive credence over the years to these temporary draws, is to ignore the things that must be done to achieve real vibrancy and infill.  Food trucks on a daily basis in the core will only give additional appearance of a "false vibrancy", will allow some to relax with the feeling that we are increasing vibrancy, and will ultimately kill some of the B & M establishments struggling in the core.

Again ... its okay to kill existing B & M establishments with food truck invasions.... you can molotov them..... attack with drones ....  burn them to the ground if you want.  But in the end, if we are to achieve our goal of vibrancy and infill, we must get these brave food truck fellows, once they've gained confidence in business, to get out of the food trucks, and into a B & M location in the core ... at the rate of at least 1.5 new B & M's for every existing one killed by the invasion, molotov's, or drones.  Increase the rate of replacement to 2.0, and we will have infill before you know it. 

Otherwise, we will end up with the first city core having nothing but an army of food trucks which must truck in every morning and lunch to feed the stagnant population.   

[thelakelander]

How many B&Ms have closed in the core (specifically downtown) because of food trucks? My guess is none. With that said, I'm not a food truck operater but I am not in favor of limiting trucks in downtown.  If anything, we need more because of the vitality, excitement and foot traffic they bring. However, I do understand the concern of an existing B&M having a truck basically pull up and serve people right in front of their front door. Instead of limiting, how about we actually designate spots where multiple trucks can set up and serve?

As for the struggling B&Ms, we shouldn't blame their struggles on trucks.  There's a whole bunch of other issues that need to be addressed, some unique to each individual business. These range from having an inferior product to limited visibility from the street and locations with a declining surrounding office worker population. Attacking and prohibiting the growth of the food truck industry isn't going to resolve their ultimate issues.

[strider]

While I have never had a business in Jacksonville's Downtown core, I did have one on the fringe, Main Street in Springfield.  I would guess the issues we faced are very similar to being in the Downtown core.  The streets are for moving traffic past, the public transportation is iffy at best and there was nothing around to bring in the foot traffic one needs to succeed.  No amount of advertising changes the issues.  You can get people excited and get them to come look once, but unless you are offering something unique, something they can't find closer to home or easier to get to, they visit once, may return if they are looking for that special something they can't find anywhere else or just happen to be around. A lot of our customers were waiting for the bus.  Once the bus route got changes, we said goodbye to 25% of our business. 

While that may be a great advertisement for the importance of fixed rail transportation, it is also one that says foot traffic is king.

I personally drive downtown about once a week for professional reasons.  I don't stop to eat because I am worried about parking and time.  I go back downtown on my time for two places.  Chamblins and Diversions.  Chamblins because it offers something unique and it the easiest and best store of it's type to get to for me and Diversions because I had to park and walk past it to get to Chamblins.  If there had been easy parking in front of Chamblins, I never would go to Diversions.  Foot traffic.

Food trucks, and I do not think anyone here is advocating putting one every 100 feet or some such thing, will bring increased foot traffic.  In fact, if they hurt any of the B&M restaurants, it will be the ones on the fringes because less people will get into their cars and drive to lunch.  That should be exactly what everyone with any kind of retail business wants Downtown, foot traffic.  A reason for people to not get in their cars and drive but to walk somewhere. If the B&M restaurants could achieve that Downtown they would have done so already.  But for many reasons, they haven't nor will they alone.  Food trucks may in the short term hurt the B&M restaurants because of competition, but as they will promote other businesses, even the restaurants will see benefits in the future.  Even for that to work, there has to be evening hours as B&M restaurants that cater to the lunch crowd do little for other retail businesses. They take all of the lunch persons time for eating and leave nothing for anyone else. Food trucks can be more Hit and Run and give more leisure time to see what's there.

Just my opinion, of course, but it seems that the choice is stagnation like we have had for years or try something new that might stimulate more of the types of businesses we need to make Downtown more sustainable for everyone, not just the lunch crowd.

[ronchamblin]

^ sounds familiar. Should we be looking for a newly formed LLC? Maybe something like "We Love the City Core"?

Actually .. good points Lake and Strider.  I will address them later, as I have to open up at Rosy. 

But, as for the above ... I am making the perhaps careless assumption that most people commenting wish ultimately for a vibrant and "full" downtown.  If that is not the goal, then this conversation is not very important.

The goal of revitalization is where true leadership from a mayor comes into play.  Without it, little will happen.  Once a mayor sets as his objective, that of "forcing" a reasonable level of movement toward a vibrant downtown because it is best for all citizens in the county, then he will have before him, the difficult task of educating others to this opinion.

This education does not involve politicking.  It involves an explanation of the fundamental dynamics of "why" vibrancy and infill benefits all citizens.  The education should be directed to all citizens, "and" to the city council members.  Once more of the city council members see the light, if one of sufficient brightness is created by the mayor, he will not only have allies to his purpose, but he will have, through the process of education, clear documentation as to "why" the focus of tax revenues, and the focus and energy of all citizens, should invest in "forcing" revitalization and infill.

Our stagnation over the years regarding the city core, which has allowed the shameful partial desolation to remain as it is, begins with the fact that there has been no vision from a mayor, and thus no leadership, and thus no education to the goal.  No vision + no leader = no education = no support = no action and poor decisions = continued mediocrity and meandering = no vibrancy and infill = stagnation.

Throughout the county, everyone, including the city council members representing the various areas, have their agenda, which for the most part, is to represent the local interests of their constituents.  As long as the council members and their constituents remain convinced that it is okay for the city core to remain mostly desolate, as it has for decades, very little progress is to be made.  Only education, beginning with a visionary and strong mayor can begin the process of education.

Mr. Mayor?

[urbanlibertarian]

The collective vision of entrepreneurs and NGO's will take DT a lot farther faster than COJ vision.  If the mayor's vision were to get COJ out of the way of small scale development that might actually make a difference.

[urbanlibertarian]

I hate to see any DT business fail but food trucks are giving consumers options they didn't have before and they are responding positively.  It's a change in the dining out marketplace.  B&M's must adapt or fail.  Resistance is futile (you know, unless government steps in to limit consumer choices but that will just prolong the inevitable).