Council and developers want to change the mobility plan again?

[vicupstate]

Aren't the urban core projects exempt for the fee (or at least mostly so) and with this change the suburban projects would now only pay for suburban projects?  How then will the urban projects ever get funded?

[tufsu1]

^ no

[IrvAdams]

Oh man, when is this city going to stop building further and further out and concentrate on its core assets? We're going to have rings and rings of 'edge cities' around a needy center - not good.

[Tacachale]

Aren't the urban core projects exempt for the fee (or at least mostly so) and with this change the suburban projects would now only pay for suburban projects?  How then will the urban projects ever get funded?

The current mobility plan divides the county into zones that determine where the money is spent. The change shouldn't change much for funding projects within the zones but it has the potential to sap fee money from projects that would improve various areas, most importantly the public transit system.

[vicupstate]

Aren't the urban core projects exempt for the fee (or at least mostly so) and with this change the suburban projects would now only pay for suburban projects?  How then will the urban projects ever get funded?

The current mobility plan divides the county into zones that determine where the money is spent. The change shouldn't change much for funding projects within the zones but it has the potential to sap fee money from projects that would improve various areas, most importantly the public transit system.

So the fees are uniform across all zones?  Construction in the core would pay fees identical to the suburbs, and those fees would stay in the core?

[thelakelander]

No, fees aren't uniform across the board. Fees are based off VMT (vehicle miles traveled), so they are generally lower in the urban core. Also, there is no fee in the downtown zone. Btw, regardless of where you are in town, there are still certain ways you can design and develop your project to reduce your overall fee.

[thelakelander]

With that said, regardless of this amendment, fees generated will remain the same in each mobility zone. What changes is by opening the political Pandora's box, you have no idea of what will be built in your neighborhood, when and where. That will literally be up to the developer paying the fee.

[icarus]

What changes is by opening the political Pandora's box, you have no idea of what will be built in your neighborhood, when and where. That will literally be up to the developer paying the fee.

Lakelander - under the proposed amendment wouldn't City Council have to approve the project substituted for the fee. Although based on past council decisions, the question might just be semantics, because they do tend to vote with developers ("progress").

[thelakelander]

^Yes. That's the political Pandora's box.  Do we really want the council deciding how the city's long term infrastructure network should be built on a case-by-case basis, depending on the lobbying ability of the proposer?  That has disaster written all over it.

[Bridges]

What changes is by opening the political Pandora's box, you have no idea of what will be built in your neighborhood, when and where. That will literally be up to the developer paying the fee.

I love how economic impact is always championed as the reason for these changes. But you know what markets really love? Stability and an environment of predictability.  The economic impact of a potential business or development knowing what projects were next and when their expected timeline was to happen?  In these short sighted situations the city only thinks about the immediate development.

Edit: We change long term plans so much and so fast in Jacksonville, that we've created this environment where developers basically have to lobby their wants at every step, cause the plans change.  I think the Pandora's box has been opened for a while on this type of thing. Time to shut it.

[thelakelander]

^Yes, for legacy projects in the plan, such as commuter rail, streetcar or the multimodal context sensitive redo of Philips Highway, predictability of knowing where and when the project will be built is a major driver of market rate economic development in cities across the country. It was anticipated that the mobility plan and fee structure would bring this type of economic stability to economically stagnant parts of Jacksonville as well.  What was not anticipated was our inability to allow the award winning product an opportunity to actually perform as designed.

[icarus]

^Yes. That's the political Pandora's box.  Do we really want the council deciding how the city's long term infrastructure network should be built on a case-by-case basis, depending on the lobbying ability of the proposer?  That has disaster written all over it.

Well, Harden earned his money on this one. Its pure genius and guarantees him a forward flow of lobbying business. ;-)

What was not anticipated was our inability to allow the award winning product an opportunity to actually perform as designed.

+1,000

[thelakelander]

^Yes. That's the political Pandora's box.  Do we really want the council deciding how the city's long term infrastructure network should be built on a case-by-case basis, depending on the lobbying ability of the proposer?  That has disaster written all over it.

Well, Harden earned his money on this one. Its pure genius and guarantees him a forward flow of lobbying business. ;-)

Yes, good money on this one and lots of future gigs as well, since these things will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Overall, Jax loses but that's nothing new. In 2020, we'll still be wondering how to pump life into downtown despite the billions spent.

[Tacachale]

I don't think this plan is all bad in that it gives the opportunity for flexibility to the people who will be building stuff and paying the fee. The potential for trouble is with the leadership, and whether they'd grow a spine or just hand out exemptions whenever someone asks nicely.

Comprehensive projects like public transit will also suffer as it seems likely developers won't be proposing their fee money go to stuff like that. But even there, the council will be more apt to listen if people hold them to it. Bike and pedestrian supporters have proven that gains can be made even in this hostile environment. Unfortunately I don't hear nearly as much of a clamor for public transit.

[Bridges]

I don't think this plan is all bad in that it gives the opportunity for flexibility to the people who will be building stuff and paying the fee. The potential for trouble is with the leadership, and whether they'd grow a spine or just hand out exemptions whenever someone asks nicely.

Comprehensive projects like public transit will also suffer as it seems likely developers won't be proposing their fee money go to stuff like that. But even there, the council will be more apt to listen if people hold them to it. Bike and pedestrian supporters have proven that gains can be made even in this hostile environment. Unfortunately I don't hear nearly as much of a clamor for public transit.

Sorry but I have to disagree.  Our leadership has time and time again shown they don't have a spine when it comes to big money and developers.  They have to earn that trust, before I hand it to them again and hope they grow one this time. 

And judging by the way they've rushed through or attempted to rush through changes to the mobility plan, I highly doubt they would be strong in soliciting public input.  And speaking of public support, it's already faded.  In fact, councilwoman Boyer cited waning public outcry as part of the reason she voted for the gradual fee in March last year.  There was only one person at this last council meeting talking about the new ordinance.  The public won't have the time or stamina to battle every development that will come before council.  And there will be a lot, a whole swath of land just opened up off 9B.

The bikers were fantastic last time, but this time they were waived off with a hand when Redman asked about it in TEU.  If the bikers were following, they'd know that the first thing to get chopped will be the Phillips highway street redo.  It is the project receiving the most attack right now.