AMTRAK FUNDED at last! - What Florida Needs?

[Ocklawaha]

Silver Star deep in Florida

Now that stable funding has finally come to Amtrak, Florida needs many improvements in Amtrak service. In fact even according to Amtrak in the (pre funding era) Florida was perhaps the most needy state in the system. Today, it has only gotten more so, and we have dragged half the South along with us into a pit of inaction. Here is my short list of AMTRAK - FLORIDA and JACKSONVILLE improvements.

JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL, at least 12 tracks, 10 of which should be double ended, meaning they could be switched from either the West or the East side of the station. Get the convention center someplace else, and do it yesterday! FOCUS on building the support Amtrak and JTA will need to create the rail hub of Florida once again.

AMTRAK, Since 1971, rather then rescue the trains of Florida, Amtrak has slowly held court over the dismembement of what ever was left of rail service in the state. The following trains were cut under Amtrak:

The Champion.....NYC-JAX-TPA
The Miamian.......NYC-JAX-MIA
The Florida Special....NYC-JAX-MIA (winter season only-all deluxe)
The Southwind....CHI-JAX-MIA/TPA
The Floridian.......CHI-JAX-MIA/TPA
The Palmetto......NYC-JAX-ORL
The Sunset Limited...ORL-JAX-LAX
The Silver-Palm...TPA - WPB - MIA



The Piedmont is running again, just not to Jacksonville. We can fix that.

Amtrak continues to operate the following daily trains to Florida:

The Silver Meteor...NYC-JAX-ORL-MIA
The Silver Star.......NYC-JAX-ORL-MIA/TPA

As terminal concourses are completed we need the following immediate expansion of Amtrak serivces to Florida.

The Palmetto.........NYC-JAX-(overnight)-DAYTONA-MIA
The Silver Star.......NYC-JAX-(split) - Waldo-Ocala-Tampa
.................................................- Orlando-W.Palm-Miami
The Silver Comet.....NYC-JAX-(overnight)-TPA-FT MYERS
The Champion.........NYC-JAX-(split) - Daytona-W.Palm-MIA
..................................................- Orlando-TPA-Sarasota
The Gulf Wind.........NORL-TAL-JAX (daytime train early am-pm)

The Piedmont.........NYC-CHARLOTTE-COLUMBIA-JAX-TPA
The Tidewater........NORFOLK-CHARLESTON-JAX
Both trains with through cars for lower Florida via Jacksonville Terminal switching

The Royal Palm........Chicago (split)
.............................Detroit (split)
.............................Cleveland (split
.............................Cincinnati-Atlanta-Jax-Daytona-Miami
through cars to other trains for Tampa and central Florida  switch out/in at JAX

The City of Miami.....St. Louis (split)
............................Chicago-Memphis-Birmingham-JAX-Miami
through cars to other trains for Tampa and central Florida switch out/in at JAX

AUTO TRAIN, needs a name, and needs to start limited passenger stops for non-auto passengers, in JAX-SAV-CHRLESTON-FAYETTEVILLE-RICHMOND


CORRIDOR TRAINS: MINI-JAX-TRAX CORRIDORS...

JAX-Tallahassee. RDC twice daily
JAX-Pensacola. daily
JAX-Valdosta. RDC daily
JAX-Yulee-Kings Bay. RDC Daily
JTA-Starke-Gainesville. RDC twice daily
JTA-St. Augustine-Ormond-Daytona-New Smyrna. RDC twice daily


Florida East Coast back in the day...

TOTALS:

JAX-NEW YORK CITY - currently (2 daily) - new (7 daily)
JAX-CHARLOTTE - currently (1 via long connection) - new (1 direct + 1 long connection)
JAX-NORFOLK - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-CHICAGO - currently (0) - new (2 daily)
JAX-CINCINNATI - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-CLEVELAND - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-DETROIT - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-COLUMBUS - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-ST LOUIS -currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-ATLANTA - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-BIRMINGHAM - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-MEMPHIS - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-NEW ORLEANS - currently (0) - new (1 daily)
JAX-PENSACOLA - currently (0) - new (2 daily)
JAX-TALLAHASSEE - currently (0) - new (4 daily)
JAX-DAYTONA-MIAMI - currently (0) - new (4 daily)
JAX-ORLANDO-MIAMI - currenty (2) - new (3 daily)
JAX-WALDO-TAMPA - currently (0) - new (3 daily)

* The CHAMPION would resume it's historic route following the CSX route of the Silver Meteor and Star except for a short detour to allow for stops in both directions at WAYCROSS, GA.

DREAM LARGE, you just might get your wish!

OCKLAWAHA
NOT A DREAM! A PLAN!

[thelakelander]

We need to stop dreaming, get a plan together and get in line.  We're not the only municipality that would benefit from Amtrak's new found funding.  There are several other places already reaching for a piece of the pie.

[Ocklawaha]

This isn't a pipe dream, rather an outline of a REAL plan. Something still light enough to kick into high gear. You know I'm pushing. Anyone else?

OCKLAWAHA

[civil42806]

Sorry but this is in fact a pipe dream.  Make no sense to schedule and have a bunch of trains driving empty to various locations.  Show me the demand for this.

[civil42806]

also don't mean this is a harsh way, but applies to a lot of people.  Dream large, but on your own dime.

[Ocklawaha]

Taking care of a fleet of trains, a long JACKSONVILLE tradition of high paying jobs.

You demonstrate your depth of understanding with the statement about empty trains... WHAT empty trains?
Getting a ticket on Amtrak is often harder then pulling off matching seats for a super-bowl game.

If your sources are the good old Conservative think-tanks, heritage foundation, Rush, Bush, MC Cain and company, I think you'll find their combined grasp of the industry is completely clueless and dated (circa 1955).

Frankly a passenger on Amtrak, enjoys your tax dollar a whole lot less then ANY passenger passing through JIA, the Skyway or JTB... In fact, just how much did we profit from JTB last year? the year before that?

Amtrak suffers from a lack of product in all but the Northeast Corridor, California, Illinois, Oregon and Washington corridors. Elsewhere the cost per train fall dramatically when you add multiple arrivals and departures, services and connections.

The system I propose is a basic service, which restores several routes with a single daily train. It restores former corridors with multiple arrivals and departures. It also makes full use of a trains unique ability to be split of joined en-route. For example in the old Union Terminal, Jacksonville trains made a common practice of entering or exiting the state as a single train, but in JAX - they were cut into two sections, one operating on one of two East Coast Routes - to Miami, and the other section of the SAME TRAIN operating on one of 4 West Coast Routes - to Tampa area. (try that with a 757).

This is simple math, Florida needs rail and is already selling out our trains often months in advance, we have not only missing trains but entire missing markets that need to be put back on the map. Amtrak can carry more passengers - one mile - on a gallon of fuel (PMPG) then any other mode of travel. If we don't make a move to get in line for the funds, now that they are finally available, California, or Texas or some other state is going to get a huge head start on a regional rail system. Jacksonville, as the "Gateway City" to Florida by rail, stands to gain the excellent high paying jobs, support jobs, crew jobs, crew bases, maintenance facilities, mail facilities, kitchens and commissary's and 100 other things that come with being a major transportation hub again. This is a "BIG IDEA" or "PEYTON SUCCESS" that we have in the bag, all we have to do is act.


Of course perhaps you enjoy your tavern as much as I do, maybe you like airplane food? enjoy those wide seats? could be you love Greyhound? Those outstanding coffee shops? Airplane peanuts?

OCKLAWAHA

[civil42806]

Rubbish, I'm sure the trains in the northeast sector are packed.  But show me the demand for the routes you described.  There have to be some studies showing the unspent demand for rail from jacksonville to columbus.

[BridgeTroll]

THAT does not look like a fun party...

[Captain Zissou]

  There have to be some studies showing the unspent demand for rail from jacksonville to columbus.

Who would ride the train from Jacksonville to Columbus? 

Maybe it's just young, open-minded, individuals, but many of my friends use the train to get to and from school.  I would have liked to have had train service available to me this summer, as I would have used it probably 4 times to travel.  Trains make perfect sense.  A solid schedule of rail service would build ridership considerably.  I think that Amtrak suffers from a similar stigma to riding the bus.  It used to be gross and people just can't get over that. 

[JeffreyS]

If they get the Miami to Jax line done maybe it could include capacity improvements that will help our commuter rail situation.

[Ocklawaha]

Rubbish, I'm sure the trains in the northeast sector are packed.  But show me the demand for the routes you described.  There have to be some studies showing the unspent demand for rail from jacksonville to columbus.

Tell you what, go north of downtown about 5:00 pm. Stand in the tracks and deny that there is a full train about to run over you. THAT would be a Jacksonville-Columbus train, but one that misses the Charlotte, market. It's sad when we put numbers up here to suport a idea and you respond with something well though out like, "rubbish..." This would appear to be just another smoke screen put up by someone without a single fact to share.

America's trains are winning back the customers in carload lots. The Air Shuttle just announced two more cities cut because their route system was not able to complete with a well ran Amtrak. Could we interest you in some land on the McCoy's Creek bluff, over looking that pipe dream I added about rail? No trains? no passenger? no park? no greenway? no sounds? Paradise!  On a Sunday afternoon you can sit and watch your car rust.

OCKLAWAHA

[Lunican]

Just as info...

Amtrak Service & Ridership
Amtrak operates four long-distance trains through Florida:
• The Auto Train (daily Lorton, Va.-Sanford, Fla.)
• The Silver Meteor (New York-Orlando-Miami)
• The Silver Star (daily New York-Orlando-Tampa-Miami)
• The Sunset Limited (tri-weekly Los Angeles-Orlando via New Orleans, Pensacola and Jacksonville)*

*Sunset Limited service suspended east of New Orleans. During FY07 Amtrak served the following Florida locations*: City Boardings + Alightings Deerfield Beach 22,218 Deland 22,077 Delray Beach 8,045 Fort Lauderdale 38,654 Hollywood 29,174 Jacksonville 57,777 Kissimmee 34,828 Lakeland 20,276 Miami 67,629 Okeechobee 3,067 Orlando 129,469 Palatka 10,791 Sanford (Auto-Train Station) 217,822 Sebring 15,227 Tampa 74,984 West Palm Beach 43,643 Winter Haven 17,923 Winter Park 26,491 Total Florida Station Usage: 840,095 *Rail service to Chipley, Crestview, Lake City, Madison, Pensacola, Tallahassee suspended 8/27/05.

[Lunican]

Yes, this years numbers are much higher.

All-time-high 2.75 million passengers ride Amtrak in July

Last month, Amtrak carried 2.75 million passengers â€" the national intercity passenger railroad's highest monthly ridership in its 37-year history. July's passenger total rose 14 percent compared with July 2007's count.

In addition, ticket revenue in July jumped 18.6 percent year over year to $168 million.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/news/article.asp?id=17661

[Coolyfett]

Miami should have more Amtrak connections. Miami should be able to go through Atlanta & Detriot. I know a Mia - Atl train would have Jax right in the middle. I don't get why they never run a route like that.

[Coolyfett]

Thu, Jul 10, 2008

There has been no Atlanta to Florida passenger trains since prior to Amtrak. There have been studies, but so far no one willing to do anything other than call for a study. In times past, there were multiple trains on multiple routes.

The last train standing was the final remnant of the Dixie Flyer, which ran overnight between Atlanta Union Station and Jacksonville. Nine hours each way. Don't know whether this train made it to A-day or not, but it did make it into the late 60's, at least. For many years this had been a Chicago to Florida train, but was post WW2 a secondary run. The portion north of Atlanta dissapeared in 1965 or thereabouts. The track is still there and is the CSX main line. Runs Atlanta - Manchester - Cordele - Waycross - Jacksonville.

Southern had trains on two routes. Up until the mid 1960's there was the Kansas City - Florida Special that ran KC to Jacksonville. It ran overnight Atlanta - Macon - Jesup - Jacksonville. The Jesup - Jacksonville segment was killed off first, which with loss of any through passenger shortly led to the discontinuation of the rest of the route. The track for this route is all still in place, but Macon - Jesup is a low speed light traffic unsignaled branch line. There have been proposals to restore service using this route south of Macon and on the ex CofG line north of Macon due to lack of problems with freight interference, but the work needed to run a reasonably fast schedule would be costly.

On their other route, Atlanta - Macon - Cordele - Valdosta - through the swamps direct to Jacksonville they had a day train and a nigth train, both running from Cincinatti with through cars from points north. They were the Royal Palm overnight and the Ponce de Leon daytime Chatanooga to Jacksonville. The track for this route is all still in place and still main line. The Ponce de Leon was kille off first with the Royal Palm going a couple of years thereafter, both gone before 1968.

Central of Georgia - Atlantic Coast Line, Atlanta -Griffin - Macon - Albany - Waycross - Jacksonville. This route also had a day train and a night train up until sometime in the early to mid 1960's, at one point carrying through cars from northern points that came in on the L&N from Cincinatti. Part of the Albany to Waycross line has been abandoned. Points north of Albany are lightly traveled, probably need work for any decent speed. There was also the Southland, overnight Atlanta to Tampa and St Petersburg up until the late 1950's. It ran almost due south out of Albany through Thomasville and on down the western part of the Florida Peninsula partly on a line known as the Perry Cutoff. Much of the route south of Albany has been abandoned. This train was through out of Chicago via Cincinatti.

The tracks exist!! but no train?? I don't get that.