What To Do With The Shipyards?

[If_I_Loved_you]

Do nothing lets want until someone with deep pockets puts his or her Money upfront? Lets not be screwed once again!

[tufsu1]

I say make it a park...oh wait, they just did that!

[simms3]

this just in from Oakland, CA - a *very* similar piece of land just received a $1.5B infusion from a Chinese investor and will become 3,100 housing units (with 200K SF retail and 33 acres of greenspace).

Similarities:
- Land size
- Land configuration
- Prior use
- Cost to develop
- Timeframe (10 years)
- Connection to a downtown area
- Connection via inland waterway to a greater public space (Lake Merritt in this case via canal...Shipyards had potential to use Hogans Creek to connect to Emerald Necklace should anyone ever decide to care)
- Warehouses and industrial use in area still intact

Differences:
- Shipyards is arguably one of two remaining "large" undeveloped pieces of waterfront land in a city with very limited public/greenspace, let alone waterfront
- Brooklyn Basis had the support of not only Mayor Quan of Oakland, but CA Governor Jerry Brown, who personally went to China to help close the deal with the Chinese investor
- $1.5B is a relatively common $ figure for a 10 year redevelopment project in the Bay...would be by far the largest completed redevelopment in the entire state of FL

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/political/la-me-pc-jerry-brown-touts-15-billion-chinese-investment-in-oakland-housing-project-20130410,0,3364359.story
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2013/04/oaklands_66acre_brooklyn_basin_development_finally_fund.html#more

[vicupstate]

Interesting how that one area is 'skipped over' in the middle.  I guess they anticipate that area will redevelop later?

Thanks for sharing.  I'm impressed with the amount of park space allowed.   

[simms3]

They are putting 3,100 units with 250,000 SF retail/commercial on 66 acres while still preserving 30 acres for parks...contrast with the similar Shipyards final plan

Shipyards:

Phase 1 ($122M)
72 loft condos
120 townhouses
16.8 acres parkspace
150 boat slips

Phase 2 ($555M)
~650 condos in three towers
58 townhomes
24 other resi units
910,000 SF office over structured parking
36,500 SF restail/commercial space

Phase 3 ($106M)
350 key hotel
90,000 SF office
50,000 SF retail/commercial

In total:
$783M
924 residential units
1,000,000 SF office
86,500 SF commercial space
350 hotel rooms
150 boat slips
16.8 acres park space


The Shipyards was proposed when all anyone could think about was luxury, spacious condos...so doubling the original units proposed (924 I believe x 2 as the office would have taken up the same space) and you get about 69 units per usable acre.  With the Oakland proposal you get about 86 units per usable acre, most likely because they are bound to be smaller rental units than larger luxury condos.  Shipyards set aside 38% of land for parks, Oakland proposal sets aside 45%, so they are very similar.

$ for $ (considering each plan as 3 million SF) the Oakland proposal is spending $500/sf and the Shipyards was proposed to cost $261/sf.  Nothing to do with the proposals themselves and all to do with the times, the unions vs non-union workers, fees, material costs, etc.

[simms3]

Interesting how that one area is 'skipped over' in the middle.  I guess they anticipate that area will redevelop later?

Thanks for sharing.  I'm impressed with the amount of park space allowed.   

No area was skipped over - that would be park space.  See post above, the density of residential units for this proposal is considerably higher than the Shipyards proposal.

What do you mean park space "allowed"?

[vicupstate]

The area that is isolated with no trees or grass looks to be excluded from the project.

I am impressed that they devoted that amount of space to parks.

[Noone]

Guess where?

A giant wooden roller coaster, boardwalk-riverwalk, arcades, various kiddie rides, a couple of family interest museums such as maritime, railroad, firehouse... toss in some unusual retail, yeah, like maybe that Ikea or Bass pro or Rail Forest Cafe, (all three either on or along Hogans Creek"walk" and connected by boats, skyway and streetcar and wow, yeah, we'd be busting out the seams.

Well guess what folks, just in case Carter or us other Jaxson's really wanted a WORLD CLASS MUSEUM THAT NOT EVEN DISNEY COULD DUPLICATE?



The USS Independence, carrier, post WWII to date, last immediate post WWII era carrier to retire, awaiting being blown up and sunk! But in the meantime it IS available. The island would have to come off and be put back on later, but WOW would that be cool or what?



The USS Olympia, Cruiser, Spanish American War, earliest steel ship afloat anywhere in the world. 1898. Been in Philadelphia for years as the Number ONE attraction, but alas, they don't have money to dry dock here and repair the hull and other work so the Navy is planning to take her off NJ and SINK HER as a reef!



USS Charles Adams, OH YEAH, get-er-done swabies. Did you know that the "new" USS Hoel is a ship of the Charles Adams Class? The Hoel's namesake, a wwII tin-can was sunk in the Battle of Leyte Gulf but only after it and a couple of sister ships tangled with the worlds largest battle ship, and the entire Imperial Japanese Fleet  in what has to be the most lopsided fights of all time. They actually achieved two things that will probably stand as a record forever... They chased off the Japanese fleet, and most astounding after they sunk the Japanese Admrial returned with his flagship... Every enemy sailor was decorating the railing, all at attention and saluting the brave American Sailors, before they left they tossed some canned fruit to our boys. The Adams and it's class have some great stories to tell.

Hell toss in the USS JACKSONVILLE when she is retired in a few years and we'd have our own fleet for visitors.

The other places with these ships or "thinking about it" don't have the money + don't have the tourist traffic to repay a bond issue. GUESS WHAT? WE DO! (Over 118,000 vehicles per day come down I-95, and the population of St. John's has jumped 108%, Nassau is already one of the fastest growing in the State)

Oh and a little aside I'll let y'all in on, I've been talking to certain corporations about a ZEPPELIN MUSEUM with mock-ups of Hindenburg travel, the GRAF and/or LOS ANGELES. Not only are they interested, if I hear from our PORT and AIRPORT AUTHORITIES, they are interested in basing a REAL ZEPPELIN here.

Cool or what?

OCKLAWAHA

The USS Charles F. Adams is moving forward. DIA subcommittee meeting in two  days Ed Ball building 1st floor at 4pm.  CRA/DIA  in the USA is also wrapping up.
What will be if any the Public Access and economic opportunity that will be allowed on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone?

[Noone]

Spoke with Scott Wilson today and he was going to FIND out what is going on with the Shipyards property next to Hogans Creek that has all the construction equipment and material on it. Don Redman is out of town. He did receive the picture and right now they have no clue what is going on. Next Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting 1/15/14 at 9 am in council chambers.

[Noone]

There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

[jaxjaguar]

I would imagine this is in preparation for the new scoreboards at the stadium... But what do I know? lol

[carpnter]

There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

This is probably going to be used for staging materials for the Southbank Riverwalk demo and reconstruction.  I was speaking with someone from the contractor about how they were doing the work a few weeks ago. 

[John P]

I think Shad Khan will have this property this year. It makes too much sense for him!

[acme54321]

There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

This is probably going to be used for staging materials for the Southbank Riverwalk demo and reconstruction.  I was speaking with someone from the contractor about how they were doing the work a few weeks ago.

They are staging material for work on the Southbank on the Northbank?

[Traveller]

They are staging material for work on the Southbank on the Northbank?

Probably easier to float the materials across the river to where they are needed rather than haul them through occupied parking lots.