Russian Propagandists are Hard at Work Spinning Invasion as America's Fault 2008

[stephendare]

This is listed in the 'politics' section, since the posts are all getting deleted in the national politics section
There is loose chatter that the Russian Expansion will include the Ukraine next.
Wonder what pretext will be used for it.

Kremlin dusts off Cold War lexicon to make US villain in Georgia
Charles Bremner in Moscow

Russians were told over breakfast yesterday what really happened in Georgia: the conflict in South Ossetia was part of a plot by Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, to stop Barack Obama being elected president of the United States.

The line came on the main news of Vesti FM, a state radio station that â€" like the Government and much of Russia's media â€" has reverted to the old habits of Soviet years, in which a sinister American hand was held to lie behind every conflict, especially those embarrassing to Moscow. Modern Russia may be plugged into the internet and the global marketplace but in the battle for world opinion the Kremlin is replaying the old black-and-white movie.

The Obama angle is getting wide play. It was aired on Wednesday by Sergei Markov, a senior political scientist who is close to Vladimir Putin, the Prime Minister and power behind President Medvedev.
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“George Bush's Administration is promoting interests of candidate John McCain,” said Dr Markov. “Defeated by Barak Obama on all fronts, McCain has one last card to play yet - the creation of a virtual Cold War with Russia . . . Bush himself did not want a war in South Ossetia but his Republican Party did not leave him any choice.” The Americans were now engineering an armed conflict between Ukraine and Russia, Dr Markov added.

The Establishment and its media supporters are dusting off favourites from the Cold War shelf. Sergei Lavrov, the Foreign Minister, accused Washington of playing dangerous games. The West was guilty of “adventurism”, supporting aggression against peace-loving Russian forces who are engaged on a humanitarian mission to protect human life. Yesterday's headline in Commersant, a generally admired newspaper, announced with old-style sarcasm the imminent American “Military Humanitarian Landing” in Georgia.

A classic of Soviet-speak also came from Vasili Lickhachev, a former Russian Ambassador to the EU. “The West has spent a lot of time, energy and money to teach Georgia the tricks of the trade . . . to make the country look like a democracy,” he said.

“We and many other nations see through this deceit. We understand that the seditious tactics of the so-called colour revolutions are a real threat to international law and the source of global legal nihilism.”

These grooves from the Cold War grave are shrugged off by many Russians but they strike a chord in a nation ready once again to see itself as the victim of outside conspiracy. Blogs everywhere attract conspiracy lovers but Russian blogs have been exceptionally rich this week in theories of Western skulduggery over Georgia.

The old thinking finds more fertile ground now because, in the view of disillusioned Russians, President Bush relaunched the ideological war through a compliant American media, especially at the time of the invasion of Iraq.

“In the old days under Soviet rule we didn't believe a word of our own propaganda but we thought that information was free in the West and we longed for it,” said Katya, a middle-aged Muscovite. “But we have learnt since that the West has its own propaganda and in some ways it is more powerful because people believe it.”

Moscow is using novel methods to spread a very unsubtle, Cold War version of the Caucasian conflict to the world. Chief among them is Russia Today, a state 24-hour news channel that is fronted much of the time by cheery British and other English-speaking television professionals.

The smiles and studio banter could come from BBC World or CNN but the story is unrelentingly the Kremlin version. Banners flash along at the bottom of the screen saying such things as “genocide” and “aggression” or “city turns into human hell, many people still trapped under rubble”. Recapping the conflict yesterday RT's presenter said that Georgia's “brutal assault” had killed 1,600 civilians in its breakaway province in a campaign that destroyed 70 per cent of the buildings in Tskhinvali, its capital. Russian forces had moved in only to bring peace as Georgian forces killed women and children who were trying to flee, it said. Throughout its rolling cover of alleged Georgian atrocities, there was no mention of the heavy Russian military offensive.

The coverage goes down well in developing countries that want an alternative to CNN and BBC World Service, a Russian official said. “We have learnt from Western TV how to simplify the narrative.”

[JeffreyS]

The Russians have alway been our unwitting pawn.  Now they know but they still fell for our trick of telling the two sides not to fight so they would fight.

[BridgeTroll]

Perhaps my services will be needed again...

[RiversideGator]

Stephen:  The only posts which have been deleted in the National Politics section are those containing personal insults.  Everything else remains.  Make your points without insults and no posts will be deleted.

Moderators:  This post belongs in the National Politics section.  The Politics is for local politics only.

[jbm32206]

It's now in the national politics thread, where it belongs. If there's a problem with posts, please report them to the mods and/or admins....and please, let's have civility in our discussions.

[Midway ®]

Example:

Riversidegator calls Senator Obama a dangerous socialist. That post stays. Mr. Obama is a United States Senator.

Riversidegator is called a dangerous facist. That post is deleted. Riversidegator claims to be an unremarkable junior attorney in an unremarkable law firm in an unremarkable southern city.

Perhaps riversidegator feels he is owed more respect and deference than the United States Senator representing one of the largest Cities in this country, and that the rules of civil discussion that he imposes upon all other participants in "his" thread don't apply to his own remarks?

Or, perhaps that because Senator Obama has entered the political arena, riversidegator feels that it is not inappropriate to ape the language and insults of  limbaugh and  hannity, being as they are on national media and that usage is found to be acceptable there, and further that their language tends to support his position.

Once again, it is with great pleasure that I spotlight riversidegator's innate hypocrisy and duplicitous instinct.

[Midway ®]

Perhaps my services will be needed again...

Yes. Go forth with your truncheon and deal the Ruskies a fatal blow.

[RiversideGator]

Example:

Riversidegator calls Senator Obama a dangerous socialist. That post stays. Mr. Obama is a United States Senator.

Riversidegator is called a dangerous facist. That post is deleted. Riversidegator claims to be an unremarkable junior attorney in an unremarkable law firm in an unremarkable southern city.

Perhaps riversidegator feels he is owed more respect and deference than the United States Senator representing one of the largest Cities in this country, and that the rules of civil discussion that he imposes upon all other participants in "his" thread don't apply to his own remarks?

Or, perhaps that because Senator Obama has entered the political arena, riversidegator feels that it is not inappropriate to ape the language and insults of  limbaugh and  hannity, being as they are on national media and that usage is found to be acceptable there, and further that their language tends to support his position.

Once again, it is with great pleasure that I spotlight riversidegator's innate hypocrisy and duplicitous instinct.

1)  As we both know, you did not just call me a fascist.  It was worse than that;
2)  You have also personally criticized me in your very next post while hiding behind your own screen name.  How unremarkable.  And, how did someone as "remarkable" as you wind up in Jacksonville, "an unremarkable Southern city";
2)  We are discussing public figures so it is fair to criticize them;
3)  You have insulted me and others personally by calling names as if we were in a school yard.  Start acting mature and your posts will not be deleted.

[RiversideGator]

Stephen:  The only posts which have been deleted in the National Politics section are those containing personal insults.  Everything else remains.  Make your points without insults and no posts will be deleted.

Moderators:  This post belongs in the National Politics section.  The Politics is for local politics only.

None of my posts have been deleted.

Thank you for being a beacon of civility for the Politics section.   

Stephen does at least usually make legitimate (although debatable) points rather than personal insults.  This distinguishes him from midway.

I have multiple emails complaining about the problem in my personal email box however.

Are you and midway Emailing each other again?

The deletions need to stop, if you are going to also be a combatant in the argument.

There are just as many offensive things being said by yourself and the right wing side of the discussion and yet no deletions.

If we cannot have fairness or civility theres not much reason to continue this section.

Fairness and civility will be maintained.  If you have a problem with something I say, let me know or let some other moderator know.  I need to steer clear of personal insults too.  The rules should apply to everyone, I agree.

[BridgeTroll]

Perhaps my services will be needed again...

Yes. Go forth with your truncheon and deal the Ruskies a fatal blow.

True to form... personal attack is your only weapon...  Perhaps a tour in the military might teach you something...

[Midway ®]

Perhaps my services will be needed again...

Yes. Go forth with your truncheon and deal the Ruskies a fatal blow.

True to form... personal attack is your only weapon...  Perhaps a tour in the military might teach you something...

Bridgetroll has a plan!

http://www.youtube.com/v/wxrWz9XVvls&hl=en&fs=1

[Midway ®]

Example:

Riversidegator calls Senator Obama a dangerous socialist. That post stays. Mr. Obama is a United States Senator.

Riversidegator is called a dangerous facist. That post is deleted. Riversidegator claims to be an unremarkable junior attorney in an unremarkable law firm in an unremarkable southern city.

Perhaps riversidegator feels he is owed more respect and deference than the United States Senator representing one of the largest Cities in this country, and that the rules of civil discussion that he imposes upon all other participants in "his" thread don't apply to his own remarks?

Or, perhaps that because Senator Obama has entered the political arena, riversidegator feels that it is not inappropriate to ape the language and insults of  limbaugh and  hannity, being as they are on national media and that usage is found to be acceptable there, and further that their language tends to support his position.

Once again, it is with great pleasure that I spotlight riversidegator's innate hypocrisy and duplicitous instinct.

1)  As we both know, you did not just call me a fascist.  It was worse than that;
2)  You have also personally criticized me in your very next post while hiding behind your own screen name.  How unremarkable.  And, how did someone as "remarkable" as you wind up in Jacksonville, "an unremarkable Southern city";
2)  We are discussing public figures so it is fair to criticize them;
3)  You have insulted me and others personally by calling names as if we were in a school yard.  Start acting mature and your posts will not be deleted.

so, what is a "criticism"  in the case of a "public figure" is an "insult" in the case of a riversidegator?

You never give up. 

I think that by putting forth all the details of your life here, that also makes you a public figure. You show no restraint in the language and form in your criticisms of anyone who disagrees with your views, you conduct yourself in a flippant manner, they cry foul when the same tactics are applied to you.

You are an unintentional comic genius. Both funny and sad.

Everybody's going bankrupt, you need to find some bankruptcies to do, instead of "blogging" all day.

[uptowngirl]

Example:

Riversidegator calls Senator Obama a dangerous socialist. That post stays. Mr. Obama is a United States Senator.

Riversidegator is called a dangerous facist. That post is deleted. Riversidegator claims to be an unremarkable junior attorney in an unremarkable law firm in an unremarkable southern city.

Perhaps riversidegator feels he is owed more respect and deference than the United States Senator representing one of the largest Cities in this country, and that the rules of civil discussion that he imposes upon all other participants in "his" thread don't apply to his own remarks?

Or, perhaps that because Senator Obama has entered the political arena, riversidegator feels that it is not inappropriate to ape the language and insults of  limbaugh and  hannity, being as they are on national media and that usage is found to be acceptable there, and further that their language tends to support his position.

Once again, it is with great pleasure that I spotlight riversidegator's innate hypocrisy and duplicitous instinct.

1)  As we both know, you did not just call me a fascist.  It was worse than that;
2)  You have also personally criticized me in your very next post while hiding behind your own screen name.  How unremarkable.  And, how did someone as "remarkable" as you wind up in Jacksonville, "an unremarkable Southern city";
2)  We are discussing public figures so it is fair to criticize them;
3)  You have insulted me and others personally by calling names as if we were in a school yard.  Start acting mature and your posts will not be deleted.

so, what is a "criticism"  in the case of a "public figure" is an "insult" in the case of a riversidegator?

You never give up. 

I think that by putting forth all the details of your life here, that also makes you a public figure. You show no restraint in the language and form in your criticisms of anyone who disagrees with your views, you conduct yourself in a flippant manner, they cry foul when the same tactics are applied to you.

You are an unintentional comic genius. Both funny and sad.

Everybody's going bankrupt, you need to find some bankruptcies to do, instead of "blogging" all day.

Perfect example....yet again

[Midway ®]

Perhaps my services will be needed again...

Yes. Go forth with your truncheon and deal the Ruskies a fatal blow.

True to form... personal attack is your only weapon...  Perhaps a tour in the military might teach you something...

Perhaps....but with you, not so much.

[Midway ®]

Example:

Riversidegator calls Senator Obama a dangerous socialist. That post stays. Mr. Obama is a United States Senator.

Riversidegator is called a dangerous facist. That post is deleted. Riversidegator claims to be an unremarkable junior attorney in an unremarkable law firm in an unremarkable southern city.

Perhaps riversidegator feels he is owed more respect and deference than the United States Senator representing one of the largest Cities in this country, and that the rules of civil discussion that he imposes upon all other participants in "his" thread don't apply to his own remarks?

Or, perhaps that because Senator Obama has entered the political arena, riversidegator feels that it is not inappropriate to ape the language and insults of  limbaugh and  hannity, being as they are on national media and that usage is found to be acceptable there, and further that their language tends to support his position.

Once again, it is with great pleasure that I spotlight riversidegator's innate hypocrisy and duplicitous instinct.

1)  As we both know, you did not just call me a fascist.  It was worse than that;
2)  You have also personally criticized me in your very next post while hiding behind your own screen name.  How unremarkable.  And, how did someone as "remarkable" as you wind up in Jacksonville, "an unremarkable Southern city";
2)  We are discussing public figures so it is fair to criticize them;
3)  You have insulted me and others personally by calling names as if we were in a school yard.  Start acting mature and your posts will not be deleted.

so, what is a "criticism"  in the case of a "public figure" is an "insult" in the case of a riversidegator?

You never give up. 

I think that by putting forth all the details of your life here, that also makes you a public figure. You show no restraint in the language and form in your criticisms of anyone who disagrees with your views, you conduct yourself in a flippant manner, they cry foul when the same tactics are applied to you.

You are an unintentional comic genius. Both funny and sad.

Everybody's going bankrupt, you need to find some bankruptcies to do, instead of "blogging" all day.

Perfect example....yet again

Perfect example of what, exactly, uptowngirl?