Meeting About Constitutional Amendment # 5

[jaxnative]

That depends.  I've read articles on schools and/or school districts that spend half of what others do per student and show much better results.  Maybe, sometimes the answer does not fully lay in throwing money at the problem.

[JeffreyS]

I agree that money is not the only consideration but it is one of the big considerations.

[RiversideGator]

It's obvious all the usual suspects are lining up to support it, but they haven't said why yet.

The Amendment would allow the state to collect sales tax to replace the property tax which currently supports the school system.  This would not require a drop in spending on public schools.  It simply replaces on tax with another and shifts the tax burden away from the already overburdened homeowners and onto all citizens of the state, tourists and temporary residents.  After all, why shouldnt those who dont own property pay their fair share?

[uptowngirl]

It's obvious all the usual suspects are lining up to support it, but they haven't said why yet.

The Amendment would allow the state to collect sales tax to replace the property tax which currently supports the school system.  This would not require a drop in spending on public schools.  It simply replaces on tax with another and shifts the tax burden away from the already overburdened homeowners and onto all citizens of the state, tourists and temporary residents.  After all, why shouldnt those who dont own property pay their fair share?

AMEN Brother!

I am sure we wouldn't see a decrease in property taxes so this would also take care of city/county budget shortfalls.

Does anyone know how property owners got stuck footing this bill to begin with? It seems a little strange that only homeowners would support schools, after all a lot of homeowners do not even have children going to the schools being supported, or do not have children at all. I believe everyone has a responsibility to ensure there is a free strong education available, I just don't think it is only up to homeowners. In fact it puts undue stress on homeowners who also pay for private school, and before anyone starts in the with the slams.... I don’t have decent schools in my neighborhood; my only other choice is to put a six year old on a bus for 30 mins each way... ridiculous!

[Ocklawaha]

U.S. public school districts spent an average of $8,287 per student in 2004, up from the previous year’s total of $8,019. In all, public elementary and secondary education received $462.7 billion from federal, state and local sources in 2004, up 5.1 percent from 2003.

     Findings from the 2004 Annual Survey of Local Government Finances â€" School Systems show that New Jersey spent $12,981 per student in 2004 -- the most among states and state equivalents -- the U.S. Census Bureau reported today. Utah, at $5,008, spent the least per student.

US Census

Hey guess what? The state with lowest spending per student UTAH, is nowhere near the state with the lowest ranking students. We could load and fire cannon size wads of cash all day long toward Tallahassee and it won't fix a thing. We Floridians are spending way too much time trying to recreate, "a man, with blonde hair and a tan..."

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

The Amendment would allow the state to collect sales tax to replace the property tax which currently supports the school system.  This would not require a drop in spending on public schools.  It simply replaces on tax with another and shifts the tax burden away from the already overburdened homeowners and onto all citizens of the state, tourists and temporary residents.  After all, why shouldnt those who dont own property pay their fair share?

so what happens when we are in a recession and sales tax receipts go down?

Example...the FL budget (which has to be balanced) was $73 million in 2006 and is now $66 million....and reports say it will have to go down by another $2 million to make up for revenue reductions.

...and one more thing...the property tax reduction on last year's ballot (average savings of $240) has been a disaster...it has led to layoffs, less funding for infrastructure (which by the way creates jobs here in FL), and has led to more fees...so why would we do it again?

[avonjax]

Imagine too as gas prices erode the tourist trade how much tax revenue will be lost. "Cutting taxes," doesn't always save money it just sounds good and helps politicians get and stay elected....

[downtownparks]

I have to tell you River. Not having a guaranteed source (an Itemized section of our property tax's) for that school funding makes me really nervous. I am all about streamlining a broken system, but not at the expense of cutting funding even further. We are already 50th in the union in per student spending. My fear would be that the first time we get hit by a hurricane, or another terrorist attack occurs, our sales taxes will be significantly impacted. They first thing the legislature would hit would be the biggest draw. Schools.

[RiversideGator]

U.S. public school districts spent an average of $8,287 per student in 2004, up from the previous year’s total of $8,019. In all, public elementary and secondary education received $462.7 billion from federal, state and local sources in 2004, up 5.1 percent from 2003.

     Findings from the 2004 Annual Survey of Local Government Finances â€" School Systems show that New Jersey spent $12,981 per student in 2004 -- the most among states and state equivalents -- the U.S. Census Bureau reported today. Utah, at $5,008, spent the least per student.

US Census

Hey guess what? The state with lowest spending per student UTAH, is nowhere near the state with the lowest ranking students. We could load and fire cannon size wads of cash all day long toward Tallahassee and it won't fix a thing. We Floridians are spending way too much time trying to recreate, "a man, with blonde hair and a tan..."

OCKLAWAHA

Exactly Ock.  Money spent per student does not correlate to student performance.  The students need a focus on education and discipline not money thrown at them.

[RiversideGator]

The Amendment would allow the state to collect sales tax to replace the property tax which currently supports the school system.  This would not require a drop in spending on public schools.  It simply replaces on tax with another and shifts the tax burden away from the already overburdened homeowners and onto all citizens of the state, tourists and temporary residents.  After all, why shouldnt those who dont own property pay their fair share?

so what happens when we are in a recession and sales tax receipts go down?

I would recommend cutting non-essential spending which probably accounts for a large portion of the budget.

...and one more thing...the property tax reduction on last year's ballot (average savings of $240) has been a disaster...it has led to layoffs, less funding for infrastructure (which by the way creates jobs here in FL), and has led to more fees...so why would we do it again?

Government layoffs are not a "disaster".  I would call this a good start.  As for funding infrastructure, again I would urge government to cut non-essential spending.  Essential spending is basically schools, police, fire, utilities and roads/mass transit.  Government before the 1930s taxed far less yet they produced the great old school buildings we see like Annie Lytle and Robert E. Lee HS, etc, the old streetcar lines we wish we still had, the early roads and bridges some of which are still in use, etc, etc.  We can still do it.  Let's just be disciplined.

[RiversideGator]

I have to tell you River. Not having a guaranteed source (an Itemized section of our property tax's) for that school funding makes me really nervous. I am all about streamlining a broken system, but not at the expense of cutting funding even further. We are already 50th in the union in per student spending. My fear would be that the first time we get hit by a hurricane, or another terrorist attack occurs, our sales taxes will be significantly impacted. They first thing the legislature would hit would be the biggest draw. Schools.

The trouble might also come when people tire of paying high property tax and insurance rates on top of the already higher than the national average home prices in Florida and they start to leave or dont move here and move to other areas instead.  Then, I guarantee you we will see lower tax revenues.  Some signs of this have already been seen and this is one impetus for the move to lower property taxes in Florida.

[jbm32206]

It should be on the ballot.  This is nothing more than an attempt by the teacher's unions to thwart the will of the people.  Yes on 5!  

This is so not true....if the reason the educational unions have not supported this amendment, it's because they know that it's not a good one, and that the school districts will lose money, and lost it big time. There's already the shortage caused by amendment 1, and under this one, they'll lose even more, since this amendment would only require that the Legislature fill that gaping hole for only one year.

It's also very likely that such an amendment will end up causing a large increase in other taxes. People say that the burden shouldn't be placed just on the homeowners to pay for public school...the fact is, we all pay in one way or another for all of the services.

[uptowngirl]

The Amendment would allow the state to collect sales tax to replace the property tax which currently supports the school system.  This would not require a drop in spending on public schools.  It simply replaces on tax with another and shifts the tax burden away from the already overburdened homeowners and onto all citizens of the state, tourists and temporary residents.  After all, why shouldnt those who dont own property pay their fair share?

so what happens when we are in a recession and sales tax receipts go down?

Example...the FL budget (which has to be balanced) was $73 million in 2006 and is now $66 million....and reports say it will have to go down by another $2 million to make up for revenue reductions.

...and one more thing...the property tax reduction on last year's ballot (average savings of $240) has been a disaster...it has led to layoffs, less funding for infrastructure (which by the way creates jobs here in FL), and has led to more fees...so why would we do it again?

Maybe you missed my post, or point. I am pretty sure the portion of property taxes now applied towards public schooling would not be "given back" to the homeowner. I know in my own case $2200 of my yearly property taxes goes tot he schools. I am sure the city/county will find a way to keep that money.

Also, property taxes could decrease based on market values, so you have the same issue as you have outlined above, but a smaller segment of the population to depend on.

If there is a major disaster how many people are going to pay their property taxes? Why pay $10,000 for a property you can't this is one of the first things people DON'T pay. As real estate values drop, so too should the taxes since they are based on value. That means less money to the schools, utilizing a sales tax is much safer because you have a bigger pool of people "pitching in". Just think currently you have people who may not even have a "job" but somehow find a way to purchase $200 sneakers and $150 jeans, and big plasma TV's, but own no property...under this rule they would be contributing too. I think it is funny so many are against this, I guess I should be too, because ultimately I think the city will keep the taxes I pay towards the schools, AND I will be paying more in sales taxes..... I change my mind DON'T pass this bill!!!!