Reinvigorating the Jacksonville Landing

[thelakelander]

You can't declare bankruptcy with money that was never your's to begin with.

[rutabaga]

When I moved back to Jax, I was surprised and disappointed at how much the Landing had declined. 

I too would like to see the landing opened up in the middle so that people on Laura Street can see the river.  It would be less confining.  Needs to be open, with a tree or two, and grass and benches, with stuff on the sides.   

[thelakelander]

[thelakelander]

The original "opening of the courtyard" concept from 2004:

[rutabaga]

Thanks Lakelander.  I did not realize that the idea of opening the center was that old.  Basically, it looks cool.  As I said in an earlier post, I returned to Jax this summer. 

[ricker]

...
As for the Landing, I probably fall in the camp of believing we don't need to over complicate this. The assets appear to be the location, waterfront dining and the central courtyard.  The liabilities appear to be dedicated parking, the enclosed horse shoe mall, a food court that takes up valuable real estate and a lack of connectivity with the rest of downtown to the north.

...That food court space should be converted into waterfront sit-down restaurant space, and the courtyard should be opened to the street. This has the double benefit of making it a better live entertainment venue/central gathering space and better integrating the complex with downtown. With the mall, I'd probably explore flipping it inside out, and utilizing the structure for a few bigger boxes that could compliment the Landing and the surrounding downtown population. Potential uses for such space could include anything from a pharmacy like CVS or Walgreens to the bowling alley concept Coles has mentioned being interested in. There's also the opportunity to turn the Hogan Street area into a revenue generating space. Right now, it's really underutilized. However, what I've just mentioned isn't anything that hasn't been said before. Sleiman has the same opportunity as Hallmark does with Unity Plaza and 220 Riverside, but situated in a location that can draw from the high density uses surrounding it in the Northbank.

Dedicated parking will still be an issue though. I just wish that the Parador garage could have been designed to accommodate the Landing's needs and everything else in the immediate area as a centralized parking facility.  Then all the other surface lots in the surrounding blocks (including the Landing's east lot) could become game for redevelopment as well.

Rather succinctly stated, as usual!
Thanks Mr.Davis.

Adding the combination of a Walgreen/CVS, Latitude 30 type of entertainment space, dedicated parking, and activating the Landing east lot AND the waterfront street end of Hogan near the old civic auditorium with programmed activities all make the most sense coupled with removing the center of the horseshoe and rearranging the dining spaces on the upper deck to capitalize on the views.

[AmyLynne]

That's very pretty, and visually it would open up the river to Laura Street, but I don't see how doing this would help reinvigorate the Landing. Maybe I'm missing the big picture, but to me it seems like you've now opened it up and allowed access to the river without actually having to go into the mall part at all.

[river4340]

I think opening it up would bring people in and, perhaps more importantly, create a connection to downtown. as it is now, it's walled off. Would it actually create more business? I don't know.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

That's very pretty, and visually it would open up the river to Laura Street, but I don't see how doing this would help reinvigorate the Landing. Maybe I'm missing the big picture, but to me it seems like you've now opened it up and allowed access to the river without actually having to go into the mall part at all.

Well, at the moment, there is little reason to go to the mall at all.  If you can increase the number of people that visit the property with a more welcoming entrance, then the mall/shopping part will take care of itself.

I would rather have 1,000 potential customers (people walking by my store daily) than be limited to the 25 current customers.

[AmyLynne]

That's very pretty, and visually it would open up the river to Laura Street, but I don't see how doing this would help reinvigorate the Landing. Maybe I'm missing the big picture, but to me it seems like you've now opened it up and allowed access to the river without actually having to go into the mall part at all.

Well, at the moment, there is little reason to go to the mall at all.  If you can increase the number of people that visit the property with a more welcoming entrance, then the mall/shopping part will take care of itself.

I would rather have 1,000 potential customers (people walking by my store daily) than be limited to the 25 current customers.

That's what I was wondering...if it would bring in more foot traffic. I'm not arguing against the idea of opening it up, I was just wondering how it would relate to giving the stores a boost.

[Tacachale]

Well, one thing it would do would be to make the most successful part of the building - the riverfront restaurants and bars - visible and accessible from the rest downtown. You'd be able to walk to them without either having to open a door and walk through a building (which is pretty empty, especially at night) or go all the way around. You'd be able to see all the big events that happen there as well as the river, which would be an attraction of their own. That would probably have a positive effect on foot traffic even without the other potential changes.

[AmyLynne]

Well, one thing it would do would be to make the most successful part of the building - the riverfront restaurants and bars - visible and accessible from the rest downtown. You'd be able to walk to them without either having to open a door and walk through a building (which is pretty empty, especially at night) or go all the way around. You'd be able to see all the big events that happen there as well as the river, which would be an attraction of their own. That would probably have a positive effect on foot traffic even without the other potential changes.

Okay, thanks! I was having a hard trying wrapping my head around it, but that all makes sense.

[thelakelander]

If I were Sleiman, I'd make the mall part disappear.  I don't see in value in keeping it. I'd strip everything down to the physical structure itself, flip storefronts to face the outside (Independent Drive) and reconfigure retail spaces into larger modules. In the end, you'd end up with a lower number of individual retail outlets but a space configurations suitable for anchor uses that don't exist today.

For example, a pharmacy probably requires at least a 10,000 square foot box. You might be able to combine a portion of the mall and a few current interior storefronts to make that space.  When leased, you'll make more per square foot because former common area is now used as revenue generating square footage. Same goes for that food court. They aren't making a penny with a space that has great waterfront views because it's a seating area. In fact, it costs them money to air condition and maintain that space. Replace the food court with a second floor restaurant or two and all of that space becomes revenue generating.

If you still want to accommodate a few smaller spaces for specialty retail or a food court, you can situate them to face the area opening the courtyard up to Laura Street or along the green space facing the intersection of Water and Hogan Streets.

[ricker]

^
Yes.
This.
These thoughts compute to survival and good fiscal sense/cents.

The location would benefit with the addition of a pharmacy wrapped in a general goods store like a CVS or Walgreens, coffee shop w/ bakery, dry cleaners, pet food & care store, small hardware store, and great dining atop, casual dining around the downstairs courtyard as has been numerously suggested.  All smart improvements.

Looking at the existing exterior layout of the grounds in plan view layered with the interior dating back to 1988 at a time when my uncle had a kiosk (before the external elevator was added near what is now Fionn MacCools),
It appears as though a removal of a slice of the horseshoe would require relocation of the escalators, or permanent removal. I do not see the sense in permanently removing the escalators in favor of installing new elevator systems.  That said, couldn't the bones of the removed wedge and roof remain? New walls could provide airlock vestibule doorways and entrance to each remaining half of the Landing,  This way the escalators could remain and stay out of the weather.

Thoughts? please.

ALSO_
Looks like a CVS/Walgreens customers could enjoy their drive-thru service if the new store were located on the east side and patrons could use the loading dock service drive for entry and Coastline Dr for exit out and around to Newnan...?

What d o you all think?
(I may be obsessing.)

[thelakelander]

I don't think opening up the horseshoe to Laura would require relocation of the escalators. Laura Street is somewhat to the east of the escalators. Opening up the center would take out the space where B.Dalton Books used to be.