Is it time to replace Metropolitan Park?

[Gators312]

Is the City marketing Metro Park to the types of tours that St. Augustine Amphitheater is marketing to?

Who exactly is in charge of booking the tours for the City?

When you go to COJ.net and search for Metropolitan Park  the following shows up at the top of the list.

http://www.coj.net/departments/office-of-economic-development/jedc-information/events/all-events/metropolitan-park-walking-tour.aspx

[tufsu1]

again, for the umpteenth time....when the land was turned over to the City there was an agreement to no more than 12 ticketed events a year....so no, Met park can't be marketed like the St. Aug Amphitheater without changes to the agreement with the State of Florida

[sheclown]

again, for the umpteenth time....when the land was turned over to the City there was an agreement to no more than 12 ticketed events a year....so no, Met park can't be marketed like the St. Aug Amphitheater without changes to the agreement with the State of Florida

So therefore, we ought to get the 12 ticketed events at least?

[exnewsman]

An example of what a more progressive city does:

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/8/27/dean_unveils_riverfront_amphitheater_parks_plan

Sounds like people live near the planned amphitheater and they're excited by the announcement.  Do we want to be a sleepy town or a vibrant city?

Sad how you never hear the kind of kudos for Jacksonville's mayor as the posters in Nashville on this article. It takes so much more than a "no new taxes" pledge to be a great mayor.

[strider]

I seem to remember from a previous thread about this that when the current stage, ETC was built, there was a big outcry and that stopped the real amphitheater from being built, I assume because of the noise issues.

No, the current park, tent and stage had been in place for years before the last amphitheater proposal raised its head.  They wanted to tear down what was there and build a much bigger venue.  One of the excuses was that the tent was getting old and worn.  That was in 1997 and it is still going strong.

What is going on now is nothing to what the problems would have been if that backdoor deal boondoggle had been built. 

So, the park has been there for how many years in its current configuration?  And in about 1997 ish, a proposal to build a bigger and therefore better stage set up was proposed and fought down?  Does that mean that rather than figure out a better system then, the residents decided to live with the noise issues cause by the existing arrangement?  The noise issues have been around since the park was set up, why is it an issue today?  It is not like noise has decided to travel differently in the last couple of decades. Because a few no longer like Rock music?  It seems that the 1997 ish deal was a missed opportunity to build a better park and take care of some of the noise issues and the community elected not to take that opportunity?  Why should their voice now count more that what is best for the rest of Jacksonville?

Twelve (12) ticketed events only per year.  And one or two of them can't be Rock?  Starting to sound like the fifties when they were censoring Elvis.   I'm an older guy and I went to Welcome to Rockville and was looking forward to going to more of them.  Seems not too likely unless I want to drive to some other city.

[tufsu1]

again, for the umpteenth time....when the land was turned over to the City there was an agreement to no more than 12 ticketed events a year....so no, Met park can't be marketed like the St. Aug Amphitheater without changes to the agreement with the State of Florida

So therefore, we ought to get the 12 ticketed events at least?

Sure....but keep in mind the boat show, world of nations, funk fest, and the two existing rock festivals all count.

[ChriswUfGator]

again, for the umpteenth time....when the land was turned over to the City there was an agreement to no more than 12 ticketed events a year....so no, Met park can't be marketed like the St. Aug Amphitheater without changes to the agreement with the State of Florida

So therefore, we ought to get the 12 ticketed events at least?

Sure....but keep in mind the boat show, world of nations, funk fest, and the two existing rock festivals all count.

So in other words, per usual, Jacksonville just redefined the term when it didn't work out?

[kbhanson3]

again, for the umpteenth time....when the land was turned over to the City there was an agreement to no more than 12 ticketed events a year....so no, Met park can't be marketed like the St. Aug Amphitheater without changes to the agreement with the State of Florida

According to the T-U it was the Nat'l Park Service. Maybe it could be renegotiated if an alternate new park site downtown was offered up in exchange.

[sheclown]

I don't think the city worries too much about following the rules.

[fieldafm]

again, for the umpteenth time....when the land was turned over to the City there was an agreement to no more than 12 ticketed events a year....so no, Met park can't be marketed like the St. Aug Amphitheater without changes to the agreement with the State of Florida

According to the T-U it was the Nat'l Park Service. Maybe it could be renegotiated if an alternate new park site downtown was offered up in exchange.

To do so, the City would have to pay back the money used to acquire and build the property (something under $2mm, WJCT paid for a portion of the original construction as well) and designate a replacement site for the park.

[Dog Walker]

The amphitheater proposed in the late 90's would have been much worse, not better than what is there now.  Bigger raised stage with a sound reflecting back wall to protect the downtown area, but project more sound across the river.  Much larger seating capacity.  52 proposed events per year, i.e. one each weekend.

I don't know what the sound situation is like now since I don't live there anymore, but the rock events held in the football arena and Metro Park in the '90's were truly horrible to the residents of St. Nicholas and San Marco.  They went on until after midnight and you could not carry on a conversation INSIDE your own house for hundreds of feet from the river. 

From what I have been reading it seems that things are better now, but could still be improved.

[Tacachale]

Thank goodness those NIMBYs were there to protect the rest of the metro area from more events downtown, a better facility, and modern sound dampening measures rather than just aiming giant speakers forward. And thank goodness they're now inventing ways to reduce even the use it does get. Again, it's all great news - for St. Augustine.

[Dog Walker]

Thank goodness those NIMBYs were there to protect the rest of the metro area from more events downtown, a better facility, and modern sound dampening measures rather than just aiming giant speakers forward. And thank goodness they're now inventing ways to reduce even the use it does get. Again, it's all great news - for St. Augustine.

I'm proud to have been one of those NIMBY's and an effective one.  Dick Suddath and I put up the money to hire a lawyer who dug enough records out of city hall to expose the backroom deal that had been done with the amphitheater developers.  Delany had the choice of seeing Rick Mullaney charged with violation of the public records laws and possible disbarment or dropping the prearranged deal so he dropped it.

Stephen, I will be happy to lend you my copy of the "Handbook of Environmental Acoustics" a textbook by Dr. James P. Cowan.  It has some dense formulas about how sound propagates under different conditions including across water.  Wind, temperature, clouds, frequency of the sounds all affect it too.  It gets really complicated and the math is tough, but Dr. Cowan's diagrams are very clear so the concepts are easy to understand.  Sound does funny things.  It can be very quiet near the source and boom out further away from the source under some conditions.

I bought the book and a decibel meter as a part of trying to understand the amphitheater proposal.  Having accurate information really ticked off the developers at some of the public hearings.  They got caught telling lies in public and frequently exposed their ignorance of acoustic engineering.  They had no sound control measures as part of their design either but kept offering up ridiculous proposals that would not have worked when the push back started.  One of them was for a two hundred foot wall at the riverfront. That drew laughter from the people in the meeting including the Mayor.

Much better to have had the concerts go to St. Augustine than have the monster that was proposed in the middle of our city.  Perhaps a properly designed speaker system and other sound control measures can be put in place, if they are not already in place, to reduce the impact.

From the reports during the last concerts it seems that something is working pretty well.

[Tacachale]

^Yeah, not really. There was no "backroom deal" or violation of public records laws. It was entirely an issue of trying to hammer out a deal with the feds while some NIMBYs fought to obstruct the process at every step, despite the wishes of the majority of the city.  But hey, St. Augustine is grateful that we continue to invent ways not to have concerts in our city.

[fieldafm]

Much better to have had the concerts go to St. Augustine than have the monster that was proposed in the middle of our city.

Sorry, but this is exactly the kind of sentiment that holds Jacksonville back.