Is it time to replace Metropolitan Park?

[Noone]

The 12/2/13 PHS Public, Health and Safety Committee meeting was all about
N
O
I
S
E
I was there for another issue but the marked agenda had defer for item 2. 2013-676 but at the discretion of the chair Kimberly Daniels it was opened up and a PHS Amendment was voted on and approved 4-0  and will move forward in the process.
The two hometown concert promoters were in the house and that was about it.

To councilwoman Daniel's credit she did recognize and allowed Public Comment before the committee vote. Two people spoke. I reminded everyone about our new DIA and CRA and please consider all these other expanded entertainment zones as we tell everyone to VISIT JACKSONVILLE! Especially from our river- Yeah right!

Councilman Redman emerged from upstairs and entered the conversation. Remember it was deferred on the marked agenda. Councilwoman Daniels in a comment to Mr. Redman said " you didn't open a can of worms it was termites."

The DIA joint subcommittee meeting has now been moved to the first floor of the Ed Ball building at 4pm on 12/6/13.  Bring your egg nogg. I'm sure we'll be using Uber and maybe Super Uber.

A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
it will Embrace Us

[Gators312]

A modern amphitheater would definitely be able to control sound projection better than the open bandshell that's there now. That's something that should have been built in the 90s and we should look into again. In the meantime, though, we shouldn't invent ways to *not* have events in Jacksonville just to appease a few. Determine reasonable measures for sound levels and time, stand by them and then step back.

+1

[strider]

I seem to remember from a previous thread about this that when the current stage, ETC was built, there was a big outcry and that stopped the real amphitheater from being built, I assume because of the noise issues. It seems it was one of those watch what you wish for issues.  By stopping what should have been built, you ended up with a bigger issue.

That's fine... so then what is the problem with these measured figures?

What is being ignored by some posters, is that the last Welcome to Rockville event had a max sound measurement of 70 dBA which was under the legal limit set forth in the existing ordinance... so, in fact the concert was within the legal guidelines.

At the last Welcome to Rockville concert, the person measuring sound levels noted that ambient noise from nearby birds actually registered higher decibel levels than the concert across the river.  His words, not mine.

Seems like at any given time, birds being birds in nearby trees were louder than the concert across the river.  A concert in which the promoter reconfigured the stage and brought in some sound attenuatoin measures.

Sounds like there maybe a workable solution somewhere in there where the venue can finally be used to its potential instead of Jacksonville missing the cash machines going instead to St Augustine, Tampa and West Palm Beach instead? 

Yes, those who do not like something, like Welcome to Rockville, will of course ignore the facts when those facts do not support their desires.  How many of us "put up" with a few parties every year where your neighbor has the family over and the music is a bit too loud and the kids make noise all day and night?  Do you complain to the city about them?  Or do you say it is OK, because they are good neighbors 363 days of the year and so live with it ( or get yourself invited so you can enjoy the fun too?) Heck, Welcome to Rockville was over early and so the neighbor's Gator Bowl party that went on until the wee hours was actually a bigger problem than Rockville would have been.

Perspective is everything.  This certainly seems like a problem that could be brought into proper perspective simply by taking a few more simple precautions to control the noise rather than throwing out another revenue stream for Jacksonville.

[sheclown]

Metro Park:  It's half full

[ChriswUfGator]

My sympathy meter dropped to zero on this issue when I saw the noise figures that, and mind you this is outside and the residents are inside their houses, wound up being less than the level of ambient road noise, and several of the testers (hired at city expense of course...because as usual complainers never use their own money) said that the ambient background noise and birds chirping were actually louder than the concert at their monitoring stations.

At this point it's an obvious political football, for what reason, or what the hidden issue is, I don't know. Knowing the way things work around here somebody's brother in law probably runs the amphitheater in saint Augustine, where all our entertainment has been going because they're welcomed there. For what it's worth, Saint Augustine has been actively courting welcome to rockville, if they pull out what else is left at metro park? It's going to be a dead venue may as well just pull the plug and call it a day.

[Tacachale]

What we have is a situation that pits out commitment to actually having events downtown against our commitment to appeasing whatever the loudest voice is. There should be one place in the city where we can have big outdoor events, and if Downtown's not that place, I don't know what is. If we listened to every complaint, there would be literally nowhere to do them.

[HisBuffPVB]

Initially, Metro Park was to be where the Landing is, then because of objections from Ortega, of all places, it was moved down to the sight by Channel 7, which was on land acquired by Urban Renewal funds from the federal government in the late 60s. It was the early venue for Jacksonville and all that jazz which had been removed from Mayport because of Navy concerns.
Perhaps a wall made of water fountains at the water's edge would cut down the noise, or perhaps a bowl facing away from the water, White noise might stop the concern of the people across the river.

[FSBA]

Anyone else see that the 2014 Welcome to Rockville website now redirects to a "Fort Rock" in Ft. Meyers that is on the same day Rockville was scheduled for?

[suburbanite]

I haven't read the previous posts, but here's my take on the Metropolitan Park issue.
It seems to me that Met Park is an excellent spot for a concert venue. Central location, waterfront access, plenty of parking, and in a designated entertainment district; a clear jewel in downtown's crown. The negatives? Just a few NIMBY's across the water. I understand their concerns, but there'll always be that contingent. That said, I would like to see Met Park promoted, but there's a wrinkle. My understanding is that land was donated by the National Park service on conditions. It was meant to be a "peoples" park, with no more than 12 ticketed events per year. A deal is a deal. Mayor Delaney tried to extract concessions out of the Park Service, in his bid to develop the park as a premier amphitheater, but to no avail. Based upon these circumstances, Met Park could never be commercially viable on only 12 ticketed events per year. Let's be glad we have the park for what it's initial purpose was, a park open to the public and for free events, along with a few ticket-required events per year. Noise restrictions be damned!

[Dog Walker]

I seem to remember from a previous thread about this that when the current stage, ETC was built, there was a big outcry and that stopped the real amphitheater from being built, I assume because of the noise issues.

No, the current park, tent and stage had been in place for years before the last amphitheater proposal raised its head.  They wanted to tear down what was there and build a much bigger venue.  One of the excuses was that the tent was getting old and worn.  That was in 1997 and it is still going strong.

What is going on now is nothing to what the problems would have been if that backdoor deal boondoggle had been built. 

[Dog Walker]

Just a few NIMBY's across the water.

More like a couple of hundred.  Sound travels across water for incredible distances without diminishing much.

The Park is simply the wrong location for a rock concert venue.

What if we build a new convention center with a concert venue as part of the exhibit space?  A double use facility would make even more economic sense. 

[Tacachale]

A "couple of hundred" NIMBY's versus the majority of the city who wanted the amphitheater, and an outdated, third rate bandshell versus a modern concert amphitheater. Great tradeoff - for St. Augustine. And now we should reduce the usefulness of the park even more by instituting even more onerous restrictions? We shouldn't be bending over backwards to make sure events don't come to Jacksonville.

[kbhanson3]

An example of what a more progressive city does:

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/8/27/dean_unveils_riverfront_amphitheater_parks_plan

Sounds like people live near the planned amphitheater and they're excited by the announcement.  Do we want to be a sleepy town or a vibrant city?

[rvrsdediva]

Sleepy town apparently.

[mtraininjax]

No matter what is decided, the Mayor, you know the one who has a spotlight or camera on him at all times, does not seem to want to care to make this an issue. You know, the one everyone else voted for.