Who was Nathan Bedford Forrest?

[kbhanson3]

http://floridamemory.com/items/show/28532  1914.  There is another one of Forsyth Street but it isnt listed... RC119675.

Seems Jacksonville was quite confederate!

Is anyone here attempting to refute the notion that Jacksonville has been and sadly remains home to people who have difficulty accepting the defeat of the Confederacy and working to achieve unification rather than perpetuating conflict between races?  I think we can all agree on that.

[Tacachale]

It's an exaggeration to say that Jacksonville was a pro-Union town, but it definitely wasn't a staunch Confederate stronghold by any means. Due to commercial ties and Florida's precarious status, there was a strong Unionist streak in Jacksonville and much of eastern Florida, including among many of the prominent citizens. The estimate by one Unionist Jaxon at the time was that at least 50% of the city was in his camp. African-Americans were obviously overwhelmingly pro-Union, and many came to Jacksonville from elsewhere to join the fight and escape slavery, especially after the final Union occupation (or liberation) of Jacksonville in February 1864. Even before that, there were attempts to organize a pro-Union government in Jacksonville, which was intended to rival the Confederate state government. This fell to the wayside when Union troops pulled out.

Interestingly, Unionist sentiment was also well established in places like Pensacola and Tampa. The major secessionist base was in the Middle Florida plantation region. After Reconstruction, Jacksonville and the other areas gradually became more Democratic and segregationist as blacks and other Republicans were increasingly isolated. By the turn of the 20th century, the Democrats were firmly in power across the state, including in Jacksonville, and they emphasized the area's Confederate leanings.

It's certainly not accurate to say Nathan Bedford Forrest would have been highly regarded by all Jaxons during the war.

[Sgarey123]

Well how about we revisit what sits in the Center of our town....you know the statue you "historians" had no clue about.

Here is a picture of the man the statue depicts:
http://floridamemory.com/items/show/28522

Here is a pretty good write up on the monument:

http://www.scv-kirby-smith.org/confederate_monument__hemming_pa.htm

It seems to me a whole lot of people went to a massive amount of effort to make sure the South kept its identity but at the same time re-joined the Union.  After the war everyone wanted the regions to get along. To do this they wisely allowed the South to keep its heroes. Forrest is certainly one of those. 

Obviously seeing momuments being raised in the 1910's, 1920's etc. clearly establishes a trend. The children of this period would have been the right age to start naming schools 30+ years later. People used to honor the elders.

The inscription is below, I would say this should apply to Forrest as well.

TO THE SOLDIERS OF FLORIDA

This shaft is by a comrade raised in testimony of his love, recalling deeds immortal, heroism unsurpassed.

With ranks unbroken, ragged, starved and decimated, the Southern soldier for duty's sake, undaunted, stood to the front of the battle until no light remained to illumine the field of carnage, save the luster of his chivalry and courage.

Nor shall your glory be forgot,
While fame her record keeps,

Or honor points the hallowed spot,
Where valor proudly sleeps.

CONFEDERATE MEMORIAL
1861-1865

Please do not support renaming Nathan Bedford Forrest High school. It is the wrong thing to do.

[Sgarey123]

Well how about we revisit what sits in the Center of our town....you know the statue you "historians" had no clue about.

Here is a picture of the man the statue depicts (not hemming):
http://floridamemory.com/items/show/28522

Here is a pretty good write up on the monument:

http://www.scv-kirby-smith.org/confederate_monument__hemming_pa.htm

It seems to me a whole lot of people went to a massive amount of effort to make sure the South kept its identity but at the same time re-joined the Union.  After the war everyone wanted the regions to get along. To do this they wisely allowed the South to keep its heroes. Forrest is certainly one of those. 

Obviously seeing momuments being raised in the 1910's, 1920's etc. clearly establishes a trend. The children of this period would have been the right age to start naming schools 30+ years later. People used to honor the elders.

The inscription is below, I would say this should apply to Forrest as well.

TO THE SOLDIERS OF FLORIDA

This shaft is by a comrade raised in testimony of his love, recalling deeds immortal, heroism unsurpassed.

With ranks unbroken, ragged, starved and decimated, the Southern soldier for duty's sake, undaunted, stood to the front of the battle until no light remained to illumine the field of carnage, save the luster of his chivalry and courage.

Nor shall your glory be forgot,
While fame her record keeps,

Or honor points the hallowed spot,
Where valor proudly sleeps.

CONFEDERATE MEMORIAL
1861-1865

Please do not support renaming Nathan Bedford Forrest High school. It is the wrong thing to do.

[BridgeTroll]

yes its just too bad that none of us have ever heard of Hemming.

How in the world did we miss that? 

[thelakelander]

yes its just too bad that none of us have ever heard of Hemming.

So what's the story behind Hemming?

[Tacachale]

I don't know, you'd think if it was important there'd be pages and pages of discussion about it on this site or something.

[Cliffs_Daughter]

yes its just too bad that none of us have ever heard of Hemming.

So what's the story behind Hemming?

From what's out there, Charles Hemming was raised in Jacksonville.

[Sgarey123]

Oh right, you guys don't need to go to school since you have already been there!


Remember your audience likes links....and you "demand sources."



The link I provided a few posts up should explain everything you need.

[Cheshire Cat]

Is there a Hemming Plaza downtown with a statue?  Who knew?  Lucky we have Sgarey123 to keep us informed. 

[thelakelander]

Sgarey123, are you really a Jacksonville resident?

[Sgarey123]

Who I am does not matter.

If you must know I am a native with pioneer roots. This is my home.  There are many like me.

The fact is that renaming the school is wrong.  Regardless of who is offended, who fought, who lived, who is the majority, who is the minority, who decided and why they decided...it is still wrong because right now it is part of our collective culture.  It is our history and we are still learning about it.

We have covered every point of contention. Every problem has an answer to make the new feel okay with the old. It is a transition that we must not ignore. We must respect what was done in the past by our elders.  We must preserve  everything we can because whether you are from here or not you are now part of this great city's history too.  Build new history and allow the relics and lessons left behind to teach us how to move forward. Destroying that legacy (those lessons) hurts everyone. 

This is something I always thought the players (heroes?) of MetroJax understood. Preserve what we can but build new and wonderful things for the future. There is always plenty of room for history when a community seeks progress. There are wonderful things in shotgun shacks as much as the old Barnett tower.  There is a story there. There is a story waiting for some studious teens to try to discover. The high school bears a story as well. It is easier to preserve it than destroy.

Changing the name of the school is wrong. I know you all know it. The question is will you fight the tide and side with history? It is, after all, what you do here right?! Show the town that this is not about race. It is about our story, our culture....our historic identity.

Please listen this time. I do not want to have to send my kids to King Henry high school. That guy was a spoiled b@stard! 

[thelakelander]

Who I am does not matter.

If you must know I am a native with pioneer roots. This is my home.  There are many like me.

No offense, I just asked because your posting style makes it seem like you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to local history. I could be reading the posts wrong but that's the gist I get.

[Sgarey123]

No, you as a group are trying to make it sound like I do not know what I am saying....when you can not win an argument you use these tactics to misdirect. The concept here is on my side.

I am  the one trying to keep this from being about race. I am trying to keep you all from passing judgement on our history.  It almost feels like you want this to be about race. It feels like you crave to be like a  McCarthy searching for Communists.  The fact is most people from here would rather keep the name and to them it isn't about racism.  It is the action of renaming the school that makes it about race.

You are all acting like the people who so want to punish from history in the 1950s. You are being small minded and intolerant.  You are all better than this....you have to be better educated than this or you would not have such affection for historical preservation in the first place.

You can bury my posts in pages of KKK rubbish.  You can "as a group" try to act like I said something I did not and then hone in on that to bury my posts.  You can even attack my character or origin or posts but it still does not change the concept.

The concept is that you must adhere to the values set forth for inclusion or join the KKK in history as intolerant and extreme. You claim to be fans of civil rights yet you act like children in "The lord of the Flies." 

Nathan Bedford Forrest was an honorable man. A soldier, a General, a leader and a good example for people to study to understand the Civil war. 

I am still in disbelief you all cannot grasp what I am saying. Its as if you are being paid to market the renaming like it is a political campaign or something.  It just does not fit your behavior or even your mindset to carry on in such a way.  Renaming is bad for Jacksonville and you all know it.

[thelakelander]

The debate has been over for me for quite a while, which is why I haven't posted as much as I did when the thread first began.  The setting for the original naming and why the name change is desired by thousands has been explained.  All the revisionist stories of Forrest in the world aren't going to change the fact of why his name was selected in Jacksonville in the first place.  Personally, I'm not in favor of honoring the racist decision made by local leadership from the 1950s and 60s. No amount of extra fluff and red herrings tossed into the discussion is going to change that core issue at this point. I'm glad to see that new leadership appears to be more open minded.