Who was Nathan Bedford Forrest?

[Demosthenes]

Awww, bummer!

Quick side note. LBJ, the proud texan and southerner that he was used Shermans quote to bow out of the 1968 presidential run.

"If nominated I will not run,  If elected I will not serve."

[Sgarey123]

I can see my King Henry comparison takes "more" to explain to you all.  I was comparing King Henry in British culture to Nathan Bedford Forrest in American culture. Sometimes it is exposing to an argument to change the target and see if the policy still applies.  It does not.

If the British mirrored the behavior we have seen on this board I would say that King Henry should have his name WIPED from history.  Moronic to say the least...

You guys are either very slow or trying to be opportunist. It is kind of desperate looking to debate in such a way.  It proves how insecure you all are about your position. It shows you have other motives than education for this move.

There is a trend. Here it is again...Back to the chalk board!

William Duval 1873- PS#1? commanded volunteer force in Seminole War, first non-military Governor, Southerner
Andrew Jackson 1928 - PS#35 Commander in  Seminole war, First Governor,  Definitely southerner
Robert E. Lee 1928 - PS#33 Confederate General - Southerner
Thomas Jefferson Elementary - #48 1936? Antebellum Southerner (the original)
Kirby Smith Middle PS#25 - 1923 - Confederate General - southerner
Forrest - 1958 - PS#241 Confederate General - Southerner
Joseph Stillwell 1964 -  PS#219 US General Florida native - Southerner
Jeb Stuart - 1966? #207 Confederate
Jefferson Davis - #216  Confederate President
Stonewall Jackson - #234 Confederate General

The trend is Southern Military figures! DUH!  Please do look for your brain cells this morning in your coffee guys.

The numbers I believe match buildings not names.

If you think Andrew Jackson (De-centralized US Bank) and Thomas Jefferson (Staunch States Right advocate) should not be included then you are not trying to think as they would have back then.

There was a trend in the 20s. It was continued. This is a more solid argument than your middle finger theory. It is more plausible and more logical.  You certainly can do your own analysis but you are better off leaving that up to more educated people (it would seem).

It just hit me. You all don't matter at all. You have no influence over this matter. You are the wrong people to be talking to because you just do not matter.  This site does not seem to matter either.  I have proven that this is a bad move but what good does that do when I may as well be talking to homeless downtown when I am discussing here? You last few points were ridiculous to the point I may as well be discussing this with livestock.

I tried to teach you all but it can not be done. Let me guess, you guys all went to the public schools here in Jacksonville right?

The fact is this whole integration thing solved one problem but created a whole bunch more issues. Making this change takes further in the wrong direction.

Renaming is bad for Jacksonville.  Nathan Bedford Forrest was a good man. He did not deserve the comments made about him yesterday on Veterans day.  I am ashamed to be part of this discussion at this point.

[Tacachale]

Sgarey123, let me fix this for you:

William Duval 1873- PS#1? First non-military governor of Florida and the guy the county's named for.
Andrew Jackson 1928 - PS#35 US President, military governor of Florida and major cultural force there, and the guy the city's named for.
Robert E. Lee 1928 - PS#33 Confederate General - Southerner
Thomas Jefferson Elementary - #48 1936? 3rd President of the United States
Kirby Smith Middle PS#25 - 1923 - Confederate General, native of Northeast Florida.
Forrest - 1958 - PS#241 Confederate General - Southerner
Joseph Stillwell 1964 -  PS#219 American WW2 general and native of Northeast Florida.
Jeb Stuart - 1966 #207 Confederate General
Jefferson Davis - #216  Confederate President (not a general)
Stonewall Jackson - #234 Confederate General

There are a lot of others you missed; I've selected these at rando, based on those whose names I can identify:

Matthew W. Gilbert Middle School: 1927 (became a junior high in 1939 and renamed for Gilbert in 1951), Bethel Baptist pastor and founder of an early African-American school
Duncan U. Fletcher High School: 1937 - Florida Senator and Mayor of Jacksonville
Hendricks Avenue Elementary: 1943 - Named for the road it's on; this is in turn named for Isaac Hendricks, plantation owner in this vicinity
Baldwin Middle-Senior High School: 1948 - Named for the town, itself named for local railroad president Abel Seymour Baldwin
Jean Ribault High School: 1956 - Led the first French expedition to this area
Samuel Wolfson High School: 1965 - local businessman
Alimacani Elementary: 1990 - Alimacani or Alicamani was a 16th-century Mocama village on Fort George Island
Kernan Middle School: 2002 - Named for the road it's on, in term named for local landowner and philanthropist Kernan Hodges

There definitely has always been a trend to name schools after people of local importance. The 1959-1966 trend to name schools after Confederates from other states seems to be an exception.

[CG7]

It has always amazed me that people can look at the same facts, and come to such different conclusions, but that is what makes human beings so fascinating. Is there a reason the school can't just be named Forest High?

[Cheshire Cat]

It has always amazed me that people can look at the same facts, and come to such different conclusions, but that is what makes human beings so fascinating. Is there a reason the school can't just be named Forest High?

There is no reason it cannot.  According to the school board rules, this issue is now in the hands of Superintendent Vitti, he must make sure that student's, faculty, alumni and people living in that schools district have the chance to fill out questionnaire's on the issue of the name change and suggestions about what the new name should be.  The new name cannot be after a person living or dead.   That rule changed a few years back.  Once the information is collected and a public meeting for the above mentioned people held, the information will be reviewed and a suggestion or suggestions for the name change will come from Mr. Vitti.  The final word as to the choice of name however will be up to the school board.

[I-10east]

MJ's version of the Civil War continues....

[thelakelander]

What's MJ's version and how does it differ from the truth?

[I-10east]

^^^I don't think that you and others are gonna be able to change Sgarey's mind and vice-versa, just saying. Does that still make me a 'resident troll'? Don't get so pissed at little tongue-in-cheek trivial comments. 

[I-10east]

dont try and run from your commment, which had nothing to do with how credulous sgarey is.

How am I 'running' from my comment? What, am I trying to hide some kinda sinister conspiracy or something? I didn't say anything about Sgarey being 'credulous', all I said was yall aren't gonna change each other minds, hence the Civil War comment (like the Union vs the Confederacy, ya know). It really doesn't take a genius to figure that out oh I forgot, you don't have any sense of humor.

[thelakelander]

^^^I don't think that you and others are gonna be able to change Sgarey's mind and vice-versa, just saying. Does that still make me a 'resident troll'? Don't get so pissed at little tongue-in-cheek trivial comments. 

I don't view you as a troll. You don't fight the definition. A Jacksonville apologist and person with a different viewpoint than most forum members here? Sure, but that's different from a troll and to have people posting with different perspectives on issues makes the forum worth participating, IMO. 

Anyway, I view these debates in a different light.  I'm actually not trying to convince Sgarey of anything. The way I see it, the debate back and forth happens to be followed by hundreds of other people within the community.  The conversation helps provide a detailed background into the topic that allows onlookers form their own educated opinions.  Personally, I've learned a lot, just from participating and following this discussion.

[Demosthenes]

Me too! For instance, it used to be publicly acceptable to be racist. (Oh, you know uncle Bob, he is a good enough guy, he just doesn't care for the blacks!)

Now you have to wrap your racism in revisionist history and try to make it seem like everyone else is racist for not accepting your views.

I would say we have come a long way!!!

[thelakelander]

I'm doing some research on another topic but came across this blurb from a 1996 Times-Union article about LaVilla.  It has a pretty interesting quote describing how slaves saw Jacksonville during the Civil War.

Rebirth after abandonment
The Florida Times-Union - Sunday, September 15, 1996
Author: Cynthia Parks

.....Other immigrants flung their spice into the melting pot of LaVilla.

But through it all, and before it all, were African-Americans.

Some first saw LaVilla as slaves, and some became Union soldiers.

During the Civil War, slave owners tried to move their chattel inland to Lake City and Ichetucknee Springs, but slaves knew that Union gunboats on the St. Johns River meant freedom . They left the corn on the stalk, headed for the river and joined the occupying Union Army.

The first black regiment was trained and disciplined by Col. Thomas Wentworth Higginson, abolitionist and Unitarian preacher. In the third occupation of Jacksonville in 1863, the Union troops built a fort in LaVilla to guard the railroad, and they named it after Higginson.

Many of the colonel's volunteers were from Northeast Florida. Higginson wrote: "They had more to fight for than the whites . . . They fought with ropes around their necks."

Pvt. Thomas Long was part of the force. "If we hadn't become sojers . . . it would have been flung in faces, `Your fader never fought for he own freedom ' . . . Neber can say dat to dis African race no more."

Long was discharged and settled in Jacksonville. So did Hanson, Hamilton, Middleton, Holzendorf.

By 1870, LaVilla -- an incorporated town -- had a population of 1,100, and 77 percent was black.

The mayor was Francis L'Engle, so dyed-in-the-wool a Confederate that he was ready to emigrate to Brazil rather than be ruled under Stars and Stripes.

But L'Engle seized the chance to cut railroad ties for a new industry. He leased quarteracre lots to black freedmen for 99 years, and a town was under way.

Along with whites, black residents of LaVilla collected taxes, made laws, molded a community.

Until 1887.

At that time, LaVilla was annexed by its bigtime neighbor, Jacksonville. Black power was reduced to one representative on the City Council. Restrictive Jim Crow laws, enacted in the late 19th century, sealed their progress.

[Sgarey123]

http://floridamemory.com/items/show/28532  1914.  There is another one of Forsyth Street but it isnt listed... RC119675.

Seems Jacksonville was quite confederate!

[thelakelander]

Yes, a Civil War reunion for veterans was held in Jacksonville in 1914.....Dignan Park to be exact. Thus, Dignan was renamed Confederate Park. In this particular case, do you still think renaming is bad?

[Tacachale]