Atlanta Braves moving to Cobb County

[I-10east]

The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase.

Like others have mentioned, I disagree with that direct comparison (Jags and Braves venues). The only correlation between the two venues is that EverBank Field is to large for the Jacksonville market IMO (in large part because of the FL/GA game), and Turner Field is too large for that fickle bandwagon ATL fanbase.

You can say that 'DT stadium and a suburban fanbase'  with damn near every organization. Why is EVERYTHING titled 'suburban' equals a bad thing? I get the whole urbanist movement thing aboard MJ, but that's just ridiculous. In most cases, if not every case (with sports teams) most of the big money comes from the suburbs anyway.   

[JayBird]

^ agreed with most with the exception of where $$$ comes from. I am not positive, but I believe a large bulk o professional sports teams $$$ comes from the corporations located DT (maybe not Jax so much) and not the suburban fan base. Regardless of price, where fans live, or how much money you have/need the Jets prove that most sports fields are not moving to the suburbs, they are still heart set on finding a spot on Manhattan to build their own stadium ... The most or 2nd most expensive land in the country.

As for the people on MJ and suburbs, I look at it as they want DT area to become more urban, so anything that smells of suburbanism is going in the wrong direction ... Not that they actually dislike suburban life or those whom dwell there. I am a suburban resident, and even when I lived in Springfield I didn't consider that urban. But that's just my $.02

[spuwho]

Turner Field doesn't have the revenue generating amenities that pro sports demands now.

It used to be just to have fans there and TV revenue was enough.

Now its about boxes, suites, larger display boards (or more of them) to sell ads. Have more control over parking and concession revenue.

When Chicago Stadium (a private facility) was replaced with the United Center, yet another private facility, people were stunned after it opened. The price of beer went up 50%. Parking fees doubled.  But the owners of the Blackhawks/Bulls got what they wanted...a modern facility with all of the revenue producing amenities. What did the city have to do? Provide cops for traffic and express buses to access transit. They kind of kept the politicians on the sideline to some degree.

When the Chicago Park District worked to replace Soldier Field, the bickering took many years to resolve because the Bears wanted more and more of the revenue from the new sources. Chicago balked and said it was outrageous to expect such a large revenue share for a facility that only hosts 8, maybe 9 home games a year. After threatening to have another NFL franchise locate in Chicago to justify the expense of the stadium, everyone settled down and the NFL put up $100M of their own money to bridge the gap. Unless you go there, you won't see the mega-levels of skyboxes on the lake side of the stadium. The TV cameras seem to avoid it. It's kind of obscene.

The Ricketts Family is having some of the same issues with Wrigley Field and the Cubs (They own both). It's old. Costs a lot to maintain. Has very few upgrade options. So they are cutting a deal to develop the surrounding properties (at least trying) with hotels, restaurants and other amenities and then building a skybridge over to the actual field to watch the game.

Even the new stadium in the Meadowlands in NJ hosts both the Jets and Giants. The revenue share demanded is so large, it can't justify more than one venue. The original Meadowlands didn't have the right mix of revenue generation available, so they replaced it.

Fans demand winning teams. Therefore teams demand better players. Which drive owners to spend more money on players. Which drives teams to extract more revenue where available.

Even Jerry Jones skirted league rules by scraping revenue off selling products called "Texas Stadium" because it didn't require he pay the NFL Licensing "tax".

Like the Dutch Tulip Bulb bubble, pro sports hasn't hit the limits of its markets yet.

[I-10east]

You're right Jay with the money from corporations being an obvious major player, and I shouldn't have said 'big money'; Although most of the corporations are into the very premier sections of the stadium, like luxury suites. I was alluding more of the 'season ticket holder' part of an average fanbase. Many cities don't have a significant DT population to be season ticket holders, so that's when the 'suburban fanbase' kicks in.

[JayBird]

Agreed I-10, I wonder his the ratio of season ticket holders compares between football and baseball. For instance I hv season tix to Jags but I always pay per game with the Suns ... Even though a seasons pass to all 30 or 40 home games is much cheaper than 10 EverBank games.

[tufsu1]

Seasin tickets comprise the majority (in some cases all) of ticket sales for football....in baseball, they usually make up less than 30%.

[I-10east]

^^^Yup, because the majority of baseball fans are that causal 'walk up' crowd. 

[KenFSU]

Atlanta Mayor Kasin Reed to Address City on 18-Month Negotiation with Braves

By Greg Bluestein and Katie Leslie

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed is about to face the news cameras this morning to try to explain how the Braves are bolting Atlanta and heading up Interstate 75. His news conference will be the first chance for reporters to hear his take on the behind-the-scenes negotiations that led the franchise to spurn Atlanta to Cobb.

He's already tried to temper his first reaction – a message that the city simply couldn't match Cobb's offer of public support – with a reminder that the relocation isn't a done deal yet. The question Reed must now answer is whether the city will fight back and, if so, how.

Plenty of questions remain. Perhaps the biggest involves how Cobb County intends to finance the county's share of the new stadium? Cobb Commission Chair Tim Lee told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution he would soon inform commissioners of the financing package, but wouldn't say what it will entail.

One possibility is a hike in the hotel/motel taxes, often a preferred route for politicians who would rather levy taxes on visitors than residents. Plus, doing that also wouldn't necessarily require a public referendum. But skeptics question whether the county's tourism base is deep enough to float a new stadium. And even if it is, it's no cakewalk. Ask Atlanta leaders who tied the partial public financing of the $1.2 billion Falcons stadium to higher hotel taxes.

Just how much Cobb will chip in is still an open question. Reed has said the county is ponying up $450 million but Lee wouldn't confirm that figure and the Braves pushed back on that assertion on Tuesday, saying in a statement the team will pay a "significant amount of the expense" but that the exact number has yet to be finalized.

The AJC will also be talking to community leaders and neighbors of Turner Field to start exploring ideas about what can be done with the stadium and the acres of parking lots that surround them if the Braves do bolt. Some say the franchise's departure could be a blessing in disguise for the hard-luck neighborhood, dreams of redevelopment have long gone unanswered.

And all eyes will soon turn to the Nov. 26 Cobb County Commission meeting, where Lee intends to ask commissioners to give final approval to whatever plan he and his allies develop. Voters are already demanding more details on how their tax dollars could be spent, and no one is quite sure what will become of Turner Field.

[Wacca Pilatka]

A sarcastic photo essay on the situation: http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/11/11/5092546/a-desperate-trip-into-the-ruins-of-turner-field

[simms3]

^^^Yup, because the majority of baseball fans are that causal 'walk up' crowd. 

Uh, yea.  They are.  Not that many people have time to devote to 82 mostly weekday/weeknight home games, so most go when the opportunity strikes.  What I like about baseball is the tickets are cheaper (though with a new stadium they won't be as cheap!), and usually going to a game can be a spur of the moment thing.  Put on your team hat, wear your suit still if you want and you won't feel out of place, quick cab ride over, usually bars to go to right next to the stadium afterwards, etc etc.  Definitely the "American pastime".

Braves sound greedy to me, but Atlanta was stupid - neither the Dome nor Turner are old stadiums (<20 years really).  Neither team has made fans very happy in a very long time, and the Braves are always such a disappointment in the end.  Someone on another thread made the point that now a streetcar can be laid down Capitol Ave and the neighborhood rebuilt if they choose to leave.

I think Atlanta should have chosen Capitol over Edgewood/Auburn easily for their FIRST streetcar - Braves have no public transit (not that a streetcar can handle stadium crowds), but an urban neighborhood with entertainment, dining, and high density residential centered around the stadium would have made sense.  A lot more sense that forking up the money for an unnecessary football stadium that really should go to the burbs.

[tufsu1]

this from Atlantic Cities today

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2013/11/atlanta-braves-are-getting-new-stadium-and-yes-ridiculous/7547/

[coredumped]

Correct, Turner field isn't that old, but it's really a "recycled" park. It was originally Centennial Olympic Stadium:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Stadium

[KenFSU]

Man, what a waste. Bulldozing a beautiful, 17-year old urban ballpark so that Cobb County can pony up a half billion dollars in public subsidies for an unnecessary replacement. Throw in the Falcons debacle with the Dome, and you've really got to wonder when cities are going to stand up and say enough is enough to keeping up with the Jones on these stadiums. Jacksonville is going to have a really interesting decision on its hands when the Everbank lease expires and new billion dollar stadiums are the norm.

With Braves Moving to Suburbs, Atlanta Plans To Demolish Turner Field

Forbes.com

With the enticement of $450 million in public subsidy for a new $672 million ballpark (or 67 percent of the total cost) in Cobb Co., and the Falcons receiving $200 million in subsidy, the City of Atlanta announced today that they plan on demolishing Turner Field when the Braves move out in 2017.

"We're going to have a master developer that is going to demolish the Ted and we're going to have one of the largest developments for middle-class people that the city has ever had," said Mayor Kasim Reed. Turner Field, or "The Ted" as it's lovingly called, was prepared in 1997 for the Braves at the conclusion of the 1996 Summer Olympics.

The move by the Brave appears baffling on one level and all about the bottom line on another. The Braves have complained that the nearest MARTA rapid-transit station is nearly a mile away from Turner Field, yet there is no MARTA service anywhere near the new location in Cobb Co. The other issue is that for years MLB has always preferred ballparks be built in the urban core, and with the new ballpark it moves 10 miles to a decidedly more suburban setting.

The main reason (beside the obvious infusion of  public funding) is that the median income in Cobb Co. is higher than in downtown Atlanta. According to reports, Census data shows the team is moving to a much more prosperous area, with a median household income of about $61,000 and a poverty level of 8.6 percent, compared to $23,000 and nearly 40 percent for the neighborhood surrounding Turner Field.

While Major League Baseball is a decidedly private industry with revenues topping $7.5 billion last year, when it comes to building ballparks, the league and its owners always push for a large portion of the cost be carried by the taxpayers. After Atlanta was roundly criticized for putting $200 million into the new  $1.2 billion stadium being built for the Atlanta Falcons next to the Georgia Dome, talks broke down between the City of Atlanta and the Braves. The Braves had been seeking $150 million in renovations to Turner Field.

As reported yesterday, traffic in downtown Atlanta was citied as a chief concern by the Braves.

"We also recognized that what is insurmountable is we can't control traffic, which is the No.1 reason why our fans don't come to more games," said Braves executive Mike Plant. "That over the last decade has grown immensely. ... We are under-served by about 5,000 parking spaces. All of those things contribute to some real challenges for us that we just, looking forward, didn't believe could be overcome."

The Braves plan to sell the naming rights for the new ballpark which will offset their costs even further. When throwing in that the overwhelming majority of fans will now park at the new ballpark, it's conceivable that total cost to the Braves will be almost entirely offset with new revenue streams.

[tufsu1]

Correct, Turner field isn't that old, but it's really a "recycled" park. It was originally Centennial Olympic Stadium:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Stadium

but it was designed from the beginning by both the Olympic Host Committee and the Braves....1/2 of the stadium was built to be temporary, was removed following the games, and replaced as permanent outfield seating.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Man, what a waste. Bulldozing a beautiful, 17-year old urban ballpark so that Cobb County can pony up a half billion dollars in public subsidies for an unnecessary replacement. Throw in the Falcons debacle with the Dome, and you've really got to wonder when cities are going to stand up and say enough is enough to keeping up with the Jones on these stadiums. Jacksonville is going to have a really interesting decision on its hands when the Everbank lease expires and new billion dollar stadiums are the norm.

I don't know that they will remain the norm 15 years from now, though; and it's certainly possible to upgrade an older stadium periodically, as with New Orleans and Kansas City.