Who was Nathan Bedford Forrest?

[Sgarey123]

Ok...I changed it. I can respect the rules. Now I am off to check my p.o. box.

[Sgarey123]

Finally had time to check links....video was gone but learned that there is NO KKK in Jax.

It would seem the activist have us worried about an imaginary monster.

This is not "racial healing."  This is racial domination.

I have seen true integration work with a confederate named school. Changing the name will not help the kids. In fact Forrest if studied is a man of honor and bravery that kids should admire.  We have a black American as President and Mayor. The children are not racial victims and changing the name of the school instead of teaching who the man was is detrimental.

Renaming is bad for Jacksonville.

[I-10east]

Word on the street is that some favor the name 'Westside High" as a NBF replacement; That sounds way too bland IMO. I think that they might as well change the mascot name 'Rebels' if the NBF name changes. I know what they could replace Rebels with, how bout the Redskins?...oh wait....

[JayBird]

^ hahaha ... Nailed it 

[jaxnative]

On the spot, fellas!  I don't know how this farce will play out but I can guarantee you one thing, the ego driven, self-appointed saviors of the "offended" will be moving on to the next available "cause" to insert themselves into.  Unfortunately, it has become a sad pattern of a self-centered culture.

[Cheshire Cat]

On the spot, fellas!  I don't know how this farce will play out but I can guarantee you one thing, the ego driven, self-appointed saviors of the "offended" will be moving on to the next available "cause" to insert themselves into.  Unfortunately, it has become a sad pattern of a self-centered culture.

Self appointed saviors and a farce!  Seriously?  If it were not for people who sensed an imbalance or wrong in society we would still have slavery, no under ground railway, wife beating would still be legal, children would not have schools to attend, women would not have the vote, hate crimes would still be legal and so many more egregious actions and behaviors would still plague America.  God bless the "self appointed saviors" who sense a wrong and do all they can to right it.  That's the way a healthy society works by the way.  No person or persons are the chosen ones or those with a rightful voice.  That right belongs to everyone.  Try and remember that when you dismiss what others do to change a wrong, real or perceived.  As it stands this issues was passed unanimously by the school board and supported by community members and is happening with the proper parameters of the School Board.  That's the reality here.

[Sgarey123]

Hi!

So happy to be back after a short break.

So tell me folks what organization is behind this? Is it metroJacksonville.com?  It seems you guys are part of the group doing this? How do we join?

I just want to know who to talk to around here.  The fact is Nathan Bedford Forrest High school really should be not be renamed. We all know this...you guys have trumped up some emotional reasons and fabricated a few things. You have even pulled out a few interesting slices of history to create distance.  You have connected dots that never existed.  Now you want to change the name of a high school that has been around for 54 years. 

I ask why? what is it really? I don't want to hear he isn't part of Jacksonville (there are plenty of other schools named that way). I do not want to hear that Jacksonville is not part of the South or Confederacy (just not true).  I do not want to hear the unproven "middle finger" theory to the Supreme Court.  I do not want to hear the three letters "KKK" ever again.  I seriously want to know the real reason, WHY?  No more propaganda!

I know that this will make some Black people happier after this is done as it serves an undeserved revenge theme. I get this one as I have watched Hollywood and TV misrepresent fact after fact. They covered up black people across the board in history (Confederate participation too). 

It will make the national news happier because they will have another "Race based" story. They get the best ratings.

It will make you happier because people from up North won't sneer at our town in ignorance. I guess left wing closed minded people will be happy since they have destroyed another regional icon.

None of the above groups benefits are enough for a change. It just seems odd.

It does not help the kids. It teaches them the wrong lessons on many levels. It disenfranchises them from past graduates. It acts like they attend a sub standard school. It teaches hate. It destroys school spirit. There are endless negative effects for the children that I foresee.

It does not facilitate or promote the values of the Civil Rights movement. If anything it is starting another Civil Rights issue.  Should we taint that movement with the cleaning of Confederate influence out of the South? Revenge?  It does not follow any logic on a philosophical level.

All I can figure is someone is wanting to look good. Who? 

You know people told me voting for Obama or Mayor Brown was the right thing to do. That we needed to "heal." That by electing Black Americans to office it would show the 30% of the population that they were represented. We all did that. We elected them. What is the result?  Do they seriously want to teach us that we made a mistake here?

Now regional icons that have been in place for decades are on trial! They are dead but they are on trial.  It does not matter if they had a trial already and won. It is time to face judgment again!  They will be held to modern values that we spent centuries cultivating.

Help me out here...give me some answers? I need them because it looks bad for the future.

[Sgarey123]

I said no more propaganda.....The below 43 black freedman soldiers in his Calvary were shooting the Yankees at Fort Pillow as well.  Go back to my post and answer the core question! This incident is not enough to change the name of the school. He was exonerated of mis-conduct back then by Congress! I believe that matters more than what they are trying to conjure up now.

Your videos are tainted.

Furthermore, are you guys going to go after all the other schools? Might be nice to know now rather than later.

Read below:   

Forrest : Memphis' first White Civil Rights Advocate


Lt. General Nathan Bedford Forrest (1821-1877) was a renowned Southern military leader and strategist during the War Between the States. During the Civil War, Forrest's Confederate cavalry wrecked havoc among Union forces throughout the mid-South. He gained worldwide fame from his many battlefield successes, but the wartime heroics have overshadowed his post-war work as a community leader and civil rights advocate. He fought fiercely on the battlefield, yet was a compassionate man off the field. After the war, Forrest worked tirelessly to build the New South and to promote employment for black Southerners. Forrest was known near and far as a great general, and was a well-respected citizen by both blacks and whites alike.

The Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association (predecessor to the NAACP) was organized by Southern blacks after the war to promote black voting rights, etc. One of their early conventions was held in Memphis and Mr. Forrest was invited to be the guest speaker, the first white man ever to be invited to speak to the Association.

After the Civil War, General Forrest made a speech to the Memphis City Council (then called the Board of Aldermen). In this speech he said that there was no reason that the black man could not be doctors, store clerks, bankers, or any other job equal to whites. They were part of our community and should be involved and employed as such just like anyone else. In another speech to Federal authorities, Forrest said that many of the ex-slaves were skilled artisans and needed to be employed and that those skills needed to be taught to the younger workers. If not, then the next generation of blacks would have no skills and could not succeed and would become dependent on the welfare of society.

Forrest's words went unheeded. The Memphis & Selma Railroad was organized by Forrest after the war to help rebuild the South's transportation and to build the 'new South'. Forrest took it upon himself to hire blacks as architects, construction engineers and foremen, train engineers and conductors, and other high level jobs. In the North, blacks were prohibited from holding such jobs. When the Civil War began, Forrest offered freedom to 44 of his slaves if they would serve with him in the Confederate army. All 44 agreed. One later deserted; the other 43 served faithfully until the end of the war.

Though they had many chances to leave, they chose to remain loyal to the South and to Forrest. Part of General Forrest's command included his own Escort Company, his Green Berets, made up of the very best soldiers available. This unit, which varied in size from 40-90 men, was the elite of the cavalry. Eight of these picked men were black soldiers and all served gallantly and bravely throughout the war. All were armed with at least 2 pistols and a rifle. Most also carried two additional pistols in saddle holsters. At war's end, when Forrest's cavalry surrendered in May 1865, there were 65 black troopers on the muster roll. Of the soldiers who served under him, Forrest said of the black troops: Finer Confederates never fought.

Forrest was a brilliant cavalryman and courageous soldier. As author Jack Hurst writes: a man possessed of physical valor perhaps unprecedented among his countrymen, as well as, ironically, a man whose social attitudes may well have changed farther in the direction of racial enlightenment over the span of his lifetime than those of most American historical figures.

When Forrest died in 1877 it is noteworthy that his funeral in Memphis was attended not only by a throng of thousands of whites but by hundreds of blacks as well. The funeral procession was over two miles long and was attended by over 10,000 area residents, including 3000 black citizens paying their respects.

[Sgarey123]

Your theories to re-brand Jacksonville and persecute Forrest have been well covered and answered.  I will attempt to teach you the answers to your additional questions. You have yet to answer even one of mine. Why are you on a public forum if you can not answer my questions?

War crimes? No. They were asked to surrender the fort and did not. The leader of the opposing force fled.  Congress Exonerated him.  You realize this was the bloodiest war ever experienced up to that time right? Gatling guns were introduced and so was Grape shot in cannon. They experienced 30% losses over and over in battles. Today we would think 10% was horrifying.  Guess who had all the fancy toys? Guess who had all the immigrants to throw in front of bullets? The Union did.  Also Guess who invaded? Not the Confederates

Your notion is preposterous and you are a revisionist if you really think the way you do.  Jacksonville didn't just sympathize with Confederacy. It was part of it.  You know, a large number of Confederates chose to live in Jacksonville after the war too.  Florida was the third State to leave the Union. It was before a few others you would consider "more southern."  Check this reference out:  http://books.google.com/books/about/A_Yankee_in_a_Confederate_Town.html?id=b-miff6lMU0C  The author sure thought of Jacksonville to be Confederate! It is in the title.  Give up on this crazy notion.

Confederate is not an evil word. It does not "immediately" place you in a hate group. Why do you hate it so much yourself?

Now answer my questions:

1) Are the other schools names after Confederates going to be next?
2) Why do this at all? See earlier post
3) Who really wants to happen? Who is funding this movement? Who funds this website?
4) Who does this make look good?

[thelakelander]

Now answer my questions:

First, thanks for giving us credit for leading the movement to rename Forrest, but we're not responsible for that. What we are responsible for is providing an online venue for debate and discussion on this topic and several others to take place for all to see.  Anyway, I answered most of your questions pages ago. 

Here's a quick review:

1) Are the other schools names after Confederates going to be next?

No. not that I'm aware of. As stated many times, this whole Forrest renaming issue has nothing to do with fighting to erase Confederate history.

2) Why do this at all? See earlier post

See pages and pages of comments about what was taking place in this city when the Forrest name was selected. It's time to correct errors of our local past and move on.

3) Who really wants to happen? Who is funding this movement? Who funds this website?

A. Evidently, the majority of the local community.
B. Who needs money to fund a movement when you can take advantage of technology, common sense and social media?
C. MJ's funding comes out of its board member's pockets, donated time for what we see as a community service and online advertising revenue. See the "About Us" section. However, why does any of this matter?

4) Who does this make look good?

I don't think this issue is about making anyone look good.  It's about correcting mistakes/injustices of our local past and moving on.

[Sgarey123]

Maybe guys like you shouldn't attack Nathan Bedford Forrest on Veterans Day.  He is still regarded as the perfect soldier and will be studied by military folks forever.

I skimmed the book and yes I knew it had numerous things that you would use for your argument in it.  Please note that the delegate from Jacksonville was also the only one to write out "Jacksonville" next to his name on the secession document.  The town was Confederate. Period. Its in the dang title for Pete's sake! It may have had some Union Sympathizers in it but the core of your argument is gone.  The resource shows that....

I want to know the real reason because everyone of the reasons you guys have listed are fabrication that can be fixed with education. Education that would heal this City! Changing the name hurts the city.  Do you not see that?

I ask about funding of the site because I see clear bias going on...the main players are working together too. If I was not here this thread would be half as long and logic would have been routed.  The true racists are not smart enough to understand the real issue at stake here. They just like NBF like a football team and they do not even have their facts straight.

I noticed in the news that almost no one for changing the name showed up to the SAC meeting. This means a group of very dedicated people knew ahead of time that the meeting did not matter. This is scary. It shows more than a bunch of people want the name changed. It shows organized and covert group movement and behavior. 

Lakelander, I hope you are right. I hope that on this Veterans day your promise that the other soldiers we named our schools for legacies are safe.  I hope  the Shields we bear them on proudly are sturdy and their memory and influence in this Confederate town are remembered.

Renaming is bad for Jacksonville.

[thelakelander]

I want to know the real reason because everyone of the reasons you guys have listed are fabrication that can be fixed with education. Education that would heal this City! Changing the name hurts the city.  Do you not see that?

What exactly is fabrication about the atmosphere of 1959 in Jacksonville and what do you have to present as factual data proving a case of fabrication?

I ask about funding of the site because I see clear bias going on...the main players are working together too. If I was not here this thread would be half as long and logic would have been routed.

It's my opinion, but I believe your commentary in this thread actually helps prove why the name of this particular school should be changed. Anyway, as far as organization of MetroJacksonville.com goes, this is a privately operated website where all sorts of ideas and topics are allowed to be debated on.  Thus, every individual will be challenged to prove the basis of their opinions.  That's something that hasn't been largely allowed in Jacksonville in recent decades.

Just look at this thread. No one has tried to muzzle your opinions in favor of a different storyline. Any Joe Blow can check out this thread and read it to solidify, form or change their previous thoughts on this particular topic, based on commentary from different perspectives.

Lakelander, I hope you are right. I hope that on this Veterans day your promise that the other soldiers we named our schools for legacies are safe.

School name or not, Forrest's legacy is safe and is not changing.

I hope  the Shields we bear them on proudly are sturdy and their memory and influence in this Confederate town are remembered.

Our Confederate portion of our local history isn't changing.  Neither are the other aspects of Jacksonville's rich history that suggest it was much more than a Confederacy haven.

Renaming is bad for Jacksonville.

F schools are bad for Jacksonville. Spending billions on an Outer Beltway to send jobs and growth into Clay and St. Johns County is bad for Jacksonville. Not collecting a mobility fee is bad for Jacksonville. Not maintaining our public parks is bad for Jacksonville.  Having a dysfunctional transit system is bad for Jacksonville. Ignoring local history is bad for Jacksonville. Losing Forrest's name on a Westside high school isn't going to make or break our city.

[Sgarey123]

The Fabrication--- You guys are asking me to disprove what you have not proven yourself.  A clear trend of schools named after military leaders from the South (that region you live in) was what was being followed. No schools were built in 30's (no money) or 40s (WWII).

Forrest Legacy--  The school name is part of it. Renaming it also lends weight to the morons in Memphis cannibalizing one of the Cities heroes.

Confederate Town - Stephen....it was "Confederate!"  We lost sons to the war on the side of the "Confederacy."  We adapted to whatever came our way. That was smart. Stop saying that nonsense.  How about we say we were both...even if we had no Union soldiers from Jacksonville.

F schools - You have a point on that paragraph but the schools name is not why people are moving away. They are leaving because we have broken the stream of generational values.  I submit it is because we do not respect our history. Our communities have been dis-joined from the schools and also our history.  Trust me when I say going to the school your Father and Grandfather went means something. 

Happy Veterans Day. Confederate or Union they were both fighting for their version of the Constitution. Remember that....and teach it to your youth.

[thelakelander]

The Fabrication--- You guys are asking me to disprove what you have not proven yourself.  A clear trend of schools named after military leaders from the South (that region you live in) was what was being followed. No schools were built in 30's (no money) or 40s (WWII).

What Jax was going through around the time of the school's opening is as much fact as you're going to find in this discussion.  You also keep mentioning a clear trend of schools named after military leaders from the South is what was being followed. 

Although this has nothing to do with renaming Forrest, can you provide a contiguous list of Duval County school openings and names from the 1920s through the 1970s?  Yes, we have some schools that are named after Confederate generals, but I'm 100% sure there's no continuous trend between the 1920s schools and those in the late 1950s and 60s. 

[Sgarey123]

Southern soldiers with school names:

William Duval 1873- PS#1? commanded volunteer force in Seminole War, first non-military Governor, Southerner
Andrew Jackson 1928 - PS#35 Commander in  Seminole war, First Governor,  Definately southerner
Robert E. Lee 1928 - PS#33 Confederate General - Southerner
Thomas Jefferson Elementary - #48 1936? Antebellum Southerner (the original)
Kirby Smith Middle PS#25 - 1923 - Confederate General - southerner
Forrest - 1958 - PS#241 Confederate General - Southerner
Joseph Stillwell 1964 -  PS#219 US General Florida native - Southerner
Jeb Stuart - 1966? #207 Confederate
Jefferson Davis - #216  Confederate President
Stonewall Jackson - #234 Confederate General


These are off the top of my head with no further research. All were southern...7 confederates. I am sure you could ask for a list from public records.  Every school had a PS# so a listing of those would give you the order as well. The PS#s are strange because they jump around a bit but the sorta stick to the timeline.

They did not build many schools in the 30s or 40s due to other hardships.

There are loads of Black American named schools. There are far more than 7. I think we have a really good balance.

Here is the list I snagged from website but it is missing a lot of schools that faded away. I think the rules I quoted earlier are pretty close. ( IE. Regional military,location, Local service, Donation)

Rutherford, Mattie V.   8-Jun   6
West Riverside    PreK-5   12
Grand Park   12-Jun   14
Brentwood   K-5   15
Ortega   K-5   16
Central Riverside   K-5   18
Upson, Ruth N.   PreK-5   19
Fishweir   PreK-5   20
Morgan, Annie R.   PreK-5   21
Kirby-Smith   8-Jun   25
Landon   8-Jun   31
Marine Science Center   12-Sep   32
Lee, Robert E.   12-Sep   33
Jackson, Andrew   12-Sep   35
Kite, Henry F.   K-5   37
Baldwin M/H   12-Jun   38
Duval Halfway House    Alt   39
Gateway Community Services    Alt   39
Impact Halfway House    Alt   43
Tiger S.H.O.P.    Alt   44
Dinsmore   K-5   45
Arlington E   K-5   46
Jefferson, Thomas   K-5   48
Duval Detention Center    Alt   49
Whitehouse    K-5   51
Johnson, James Weldon Academic & Career Training Center   12-Sep   54
Garden City   K-5   59
Oceanway M   8-Jun   62
Fletcher M   8-Jun   63
Hogan-Spring Glen   PreK-5   64
Atlantic Beach   PreK-5   65
DuPont, Alfred   8-Jun   66
Venetia   K-5   68
Lake Shore    8-Jun   69
North Shore    PreK-5   70
Hendricks Avenue   K-5   71
Spring Park   PreK-5   72
Love, John    PreK-5   73
Lake Forest    PreK-5   74
Paxon School for Advanced Studies   12-Sep   75
Southside Estates   PreK-5   76
Hyde Park   K-5   77
Biltmore   PreK-5   78
Ramona Boulevard   K-5   79
San Pablo    K-5   80
PACE Center for Girls    Alt   81
Love Grove   PreK-5   82
San Jose   K-5   83
Bayview   PreK-5   84
Lake Lucina   K-5   85
Parker, Terry    12-Sep   86
Englewood E   K-5   87
Stockton, John N.C.   K-5   88
Woodland Acres    PreK-5   89
Englewood H   12-Sep   90
Mathis, Sallye B.   PreK-5   91
Butler, Eugene   8-Jun   92
Pinedale   PreK-5   93
Windy Hill    K-5   94
Pearson, Rutledge H.   PreK-5   95
Ribault H   12-Sep   96
Cedar Hills   PreK-5   97
Timucuan    K-5   98
Highlands E   PreK-5   99
Long Branch   PreK-5   106
Anderson, Douglas   12-Sep   107
Tillis, Sadie    K-5   116
Evans, Saint Clair   PreK-5   124
Tolbert, Susie   5-Mar   128
Axson, J. Allen   PreK-5   141
Chaffee Trail   PreK-5   142
West Jacksonville   PreK-5   143
Jacksonville Beach   K-5   144
Darnell-Cookman   12-Jun   145
Gilbert, Matthew   8-Jun   146
Brown, Richard L.   K-5   148
Livingston, S. P.   PreK-5   149
New Berlin   PreK-5   150
Johnson, James Weldon   8-Jun   152
Stanton College Prep   12-Sep   153
Ford, John E.   PreK-8   154
Northwestern   8-Jun   155
Carver, George W.   PreK-5   158
Pine Forest    K-5   159
Waterleaf    K-5   160
Daniels, R. V.    K-2   162
Payne, Rufus E.   PreK-5   163
Mount Herman   PreK-12   164
Raines, William   12-Sep   165
Woodson, Carter G.   PreK-5   166
Hull, S. A.   PreK-5   169
Palm Avenue   12-Jun   170
Pre-Trial Detention Center    Alt   176
Hubbard House    Alt   182
Youth Crisis Center    Alt   182
AMI Kids of Jacksonville    Alt   185
Reynolds Lane    PreK-5   202
Kings Trail   K-5   203
Pickett   K-5   205
Brookview   K-5   206
Stuart, J.E.B.    8-Jun   207
Parkwood Heights   K-5   208
Holiday Hill   K-5   209
Oak Hill    PreK-5   210
Southside M   8-Jun   211
Ribault M   8-Jun   212
Arlington M   k-5   213
Hyde Grove   PreK-5   214
Justina Road   PreK-5   215
Davis, Jefferson    8-Jun   216
Brewer, Don   5-Mar   217
San Mateo   K-5   218
Stilwell, Joseph   8-Jun   219
King, Martin Luther   K-5   220
Normandy Village   K-5   221
Greenfield   PreK-5   222
Fletcher H   12-Sep   223
Wolfson, Samuel W.   12-Sep   224
Seabreeze   K-5   225
Crystal Springs   PreK-5   226
Mayport E   PreK-5   227
Merrill Road   PreK-2   228
Jacksonville Heights   K-5   229
Beauclerc   K-5   230
Kernan Trail   PreK-5   231
Chimney Lakes   K-5   232
Lone Star   K-5   233
Jackson, Stonewall   K-5   234
Fort Caroline E   K-5   235
Jones, Mamie Agnes   K-5   236
Sandalwood   12-Sep   237
Fort Caroline M   8-Jun   238
Sabal Palm    PreK-5   239
Arlington Heights   K-5   240
Forrest, Nathan B   12-Sep   241
Sheffield, Louis   K-5   242
Gregory Drive   K-5   243
Highlands M   8-Jun   244
Neptune Beach   PreK-5   246
Finegan, Joseph    K-5   247
White, Edward H.   12-Sep   248
Pine Estates   K-5   250
Alden Road   12-Jun   252
Mayport M   8-Jun   254
Enterprise   PreK-5   255
Landmark    8-Jun   256
Alimacani   PreK-5   257
Robinson, Andrew   PreK-5   262
Abess Park   PreK-5   263
MEAP. Roziers Chets Creek   k-5   264
First Coast   12-Sep   265
LaVilla   8-Jun   267
Biscayne   PreK-5   269
Oceanway E   K-5   270
Westview   PreK-8   274
Kernan   8-Jun   279
Peterson, Frank H.   12-Sep   280
Randolph, A. Philip   12-Sep   285