Trainsforming America Coming to Jacksonville

[Noone]

Of course "rail" can work in Jacksonville.  There are several variations out there that are more suitable to various urban environments.  There's a reason AAF is considering a connection to Jax as their potential second phase. There's also a reason Amtrak has been dying to operate on the FEC from Jax to Miami.  It's because there is a market worth serving.

Anyway, why do Jaxsons feel compelled to compare cars to mass transit anytime the subject of another form of mobility pops up?  Is this an example of the siloing effect that's dragged our community down for so long?

Why can't we have it all?  Major cities with vibrant economic growth typically have reliable multimodal transportation networks.  It should never be an either or situation.  It's all about choice. Urban communities offering their residents true diversity provide environments where people aren't forced into any particular mode. 

If some don't want to get out of their vehicle, fine, no one is forcing anyone too.  However, that doesn't mean bicyclist and pedestrians should take their life into their own hands by deciding to get around without a car.  It also doesn't mean someone relying on mass transit should have to wait at bus stops without shelters or two hour trips to move from one side of town to the other.

Same can be said for the Waterways. Just got off the Amtrak from Portland to Boston and the ride and the rail experience was very enjoyable. Boston this time around was a nightmare for us using Public Transportation. A Tale of two trips.

Is any of this being shown to JTA, DIA, or in a Public forum given the new CRA that is being developed?

[thelakelander]

Time and time again. People involved with the JTA and DIA are well aware.  You just have to keep pushing to make concepts, reality.......with the understanding that in many cases, it takes years to go from concept to reality.

[simms3]

Lake, good clarifications.  I just laugh when people clamor for any and all transit as a cure all for whatever ails roads may bring.  Having options is really nice, but I also think transitioning a car oriented city like Jax, Atlanta, LA, Miami, HOuston, Dallas, etc into a truly urban one where public transportation becomes an easier, more logical choice is a very difficult task that could take more than a century (and trends, technology and development patterns evolve more rapidly than that).

Yes, I think Jax should have a commuter rail line and a streetcar or two and go from there.  I find commuter rail to be comfortable and a "nice" alternative to a car (as opposed to a subway or crowded bus), and streetcars can be super convenient for short trips like lunch breaks or meetings, but are otherwise slow and a little unwieldy for real "commuting".

Walking is obvi a great choice (can't be compared to biking as you made the comparison...can't speak to DC, but have enough experience in NYC, Chicago, and SF to know that biking in these cities is not for the faint of heart...I do it, weaving in and out of cars and busses and trying not to slow the "tailgating" bikers behind me when I'm on a busy bike corridor, but I do this rarely!  the saying around here is "two types of bikers, those that have been hit and those that haven't been hit yet").  However, in some cities (SF in particular), if you can walk to work, you might be living in a boring neighborhood since where you "want" to live is elsewhere.  It'd be like living in Midtown Manhattan, or Lower Manhattan 15 years ago...*boring*.  Same with the financial district in Boston - expensive and boring, though both FiDis in SF and Boston are seeing the resurgence that Lower Manhattan saw 5-15 years ago.  And nobody lives in the District in DC...worst "urban" downtown in the world.

I think it's cooler and more exciting to live in the downtown/CBD of a car oriented city, because that's usually one of the only exciting cool areas of the city relative to the rest (Atlanta, Charlotte, Denver, NOT LA yet imo since you always have Pasadena Weho or Santa Monica which are all way cooler than DTLA will ever be, and Orlando).

SF is putting in similar BRT as Cleveland's on a busy corridor pretty close to me where there are currently 2 busses I use on 2-5 minute headways (so you can tell BRT is needed).  I believe this is going to cost over a billy, but will be useful and worth it.  At the same time the city is adding a subway line down a corridor that doesn't really need it (basically a wasteful 2 billy for this thing).  I would have rather seen a new line extended down the street with the nation's busiest bus line as an "Alternative" to that bus, which can be a friggin nightmare...

For busses it should be a "given" that the station posts the arrival ETAs of the next bus lines arriving.  Of course we can't expect that simple logical feature from JTA, but any legitimate transit organization has such feature at all covered bus stops.  Lots of transit riders in big cities have apps to use (I have I think 3 transit apps and 3 rideshare apps, LoL).  These are merely tools to make the utter unreliability of systems somewhat more predictable, ha.

I do think bringing the Skyway to Brooklyn and forecasting a large increase in ridership is iffy at best.

[spuwho]

When I read this....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Jacksonville,_Florida

I thought Lake had written it.

[thelakelander]

Nope. Consolidation screws a lot of people's perspective of size. Whoever wrote that, came from a perspective that we're on a similar level with cities like San Francisco.  We're not. Most of the larger cities being compared to Jax are out of our league, population wise. In reality, we're right where we should be......a 40 something urban area.  Our peers are places like Hartford, Louisville and Memphis.  Not, San Francisco, Detroit, Boston, Atlanta, Miami, etc.  Our traffic "congestion" is directly relative to communities of our true size.

[Ocklawaha]

When you travel to Jacksonville from Tampa by rail your first leg to Orlando/Sandford will be by bus. I see the "AMTRACK" labeled busses quite often.

Not exactly true Overstreet. One CAN leave/arrive Tampa's Union Station completely by rail from: NYC-JAX-ORL-TPA, Florida currently has but two trains, one of them leaves Orlando and heads for Miami (you CAN tale the Amtrak bus and connect to and from Tampa. The other train runs straight through: NYC-JAX-ORL-TAMPA.

[tufsu1]

bumping this...

Tonight is the screening....event starts at 6pm...cost at the door is $10, inclduing typical movie snacks

[thelakelander]

This event starts in an hour & a half. It should be interesting.

[Debbie Thompson]

Should be required attendance for all City Council members and JTA board members.

[fsujax]

Great film. There were several from JTA in attendance, including executive leadership. No Board members or elected officials though.

[ProjectMaximus]

well, I just got back to town yesterday and was probably sleeping during this presentation. Glad to see the continued advocacy efforts.

Of course there are pros and cons to trains (vs cars) and there are pros and cons to specific types of rail transit as well, but as Lake said the argument shouldn't be simply A vs B. Also I think the general public (in America overall but especially in Jax) is less informed about the totality of benefits of rail transportation, so sometimes it's ok for the advocates to go overboard in the presentations.

As for comparison to the rest of the world, since I've just returned from Asia I will add that yall don't know bad traffic until you've been outside NA and Europe. Bangkok, Jakarta, Manila...even Singapore when something goes wrong. Yikes! On the other end of the spectrum, Asia also takes the cake for crowded subways. Seriously, HK, Singapore, Taipei, Tokyo (and probably more but this is just my personal experience) are like a mosh pit during rush hours. Of course, they're also much cleaner than the NYC subway system.