Are We Poised for a War in Syria?

[Cheshire Cat]

Barely out of one war and it is sure beginning to look as though the U.S. and the U.K. want to roll out that war machine again.  I mean really, it is costly to keep that military machine on "idle" right.    The need to go to war is once again focused around the issue of "chemical weapons".  Someone discharged some in Syria. No one is sure who did and even if they did, but man or man the saber's are already rattling.  I find the thought of war in Syria chilling, even beyond the as yet not fully vetted instances of chemical weapon use and who used them.  We have seen in recent years the reality that this type of "warfare" where identifying combatant's and friendlies is next to impossible has resulted an horrific and lasing impact on our troops when put in that situation.  Moral down, post traumatic stress off the charts,  suicide's up and innocent civilians murdered.  Yeah, I get the "horror" of chemical weapons taking out masses of innocent people but I also get that bomb's and heavy weaponry do the same damn thing.  We don't need to go into Syria. I am not ready to hear about the blood of America's young troops being spilled over folks in power trying to control one another.  Has no one learned anything from the moral and physical costs of wars like these?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/29/world/europe/syria-civil-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t1  (click link for full story)

(CNN) -- British Prime Minister David Cameron opened an emergency session of the House of Commons Thursday by saying the debate on Syria is about "how to respond to one of most abhorrent uses of chemical weapons in a century" -- not about regime change or invasion.
"Put simply, is it in Britain's national interest in maintaining an international taboo against the use of chemical weapons on the battlefield?" Cameron asked lawmakers. "I would say yes it is."
Cameron told members of the House of Commons -- whom he recalled from summer vacation to debate a British response to the deaths of hundreds in a chemical weapons attack outside Damascus last week -- that the government would not act without first hearing from U.N. weapons inspectors, giving the United Nations a chance to weigh in and Parliament to have another vote.
But Cameron said a failure to act by the international community would give Syrian President Bashar al-Assad the unmistakable signal that he could use such weapons "with impunity."
In New York, meanwhile, the U.N. Security Council prepared for a closed-door meeting Thursday afternoon. The session was called by Russia, Syria's leading ally, a Western diplomat told CNN.
In Washington, the White House said it would be briefing American lawmakers Thursday evening. But a senior U.S. official told CNN the use of chemical weapons last week was not the act of a "rogue element" of the Syrian military, and that there was no doubt al-Assad's government was behind it.

[BridgeTroll]

No doubt... as long as they keep the gas and bombs and bullets within Syria... they should be allowed to settle things however they want to... 

[JeffreyS]

I am not saying we don't have more justification for this war than Iraq. I just have no stomach for this war even on a limited basis.

At the very least Congress should vote on it and a war tax should be passed before any action is taken.

[Cheshire Cat]

We don't need to become involved in another damn war over internal issues elsewhere and we sure don't need our kid's dying over the stuff going on in Syria.  The U.S cannot patrol the world and we need to stop "inserting" ourselves into these incidents in other countries.  If the U.N. says it will not abide "chemical weapons" then the U.N. needs to send in troops.  America needs to stay out of it period!  I appreciate the devastation in the hearts and minds of those innocents suffering in Syria, at the same time I don't want kids here dying over there while they work toward creating a different political system.

[If_I_Loved_you]

We don't need to become involved in another damn war over internal issues elsewhere and we sure don't need our kid's dying over the stuff going on in Syria.  The U.S cannot patrol the world and we need to stop "inserting" ourselves into these incidents in other countries.  If the U.N. says it will not abide "chemical weapons" then the U.N. needs to send in troops.  America needs to stay out of it period!  I appreciate the devastation in the hearts and minds of those innocents suffering in Syria, at the same time I don't want kids here dying over there while they work toward creating a different political system.

Diane we don't want to put boots on the ground? But I would love putting some cruise missiles into Syria telling them using chemical weapons on your own people is Stupid. I always love these arguments when people say it's none of are business? Well then we shouldn't have gone to WAR at all against anybody? Fat chance of that happening.

[Cheshire Cat]

We don't need to become involved in another damn war over internal issues elsewhere and we sure don't need our kid's dying over the stuff going on in Syria.  The U.S cannot patrol the world and we need to stop "inserting" ourselves into these incidents in other countries.  If the U.N. says it will not abide "chemical weapons" then the U.N. needs to send in troops.  America needs to stay out of it period!  I appreciate the devastation in the hearts and minds of those innocents suffering in Syria, at the same time I don't want kids here dying over there while they work toward creating a different political system.

Diane we don't want to put boots on the ground? But I would love putting some cruise missiles into Syria telling them using chemical weapons on your own people is Stupid. I always love these arguments when people say it's none of are business? Well then we shouldn't have gone to WAR at all against anybody? Fat chance of that happening.

Wait, wait, wait.  This is from the Christian?  How do you know those destroyed with a cruise missile would be those responsible for the chemical weapons? That has not been determined.  It is going to be next to impossible to know who used the chemical weapons in the end.  Are you saying we just bomb anyone to make a point cause gosh killing with chemical weapons is wrong but using cruise missiles is kewl? 

[Cheshire Cat]

About that military industry.  Amazing how the stock in weapons goes up at the thought of blood on the ground. 


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/29/alan-grayson-syria_n_3836276.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
(click link for full story)

Alan Grayson On Syria Strike: 'Nobody Wants This Except The Military-Industrial Complex'
WASHINGTON -- Citing his responsibility to represent the views of his constituents, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) said Thursday that he can't support an attack on Syria that his voters strongly oppose.

"One thing that is perfectly clear to me in my district, and I think is true in many other districts from speaking to other members, is that there is no desire, no desire on the part of people to be the world's policeman," Grayson said on SiriusXM's "The Agenda with Ari Rabin-Havt," which aired Thursday morning. "For us to pick up this gauntlet even on the basis of unequivocal evidence of chemical warfare by the Syrian army, deliberately against its own people -- even if there were unequivocal evidence of that -- that's just not what people in my district want."

[I-10east]

IMO we should stay the hell away from Syria, but unfortunately it looks like Obama will find a way to get involved in that mess. No matter what we do in that mess over there, those people will hate us anyway just for being Americans. Let them handle their own issues in the wonderful world of Sharia Law. Screw the PC crap, it seems like most of those people are hellbent on violence anyway, it's in their religion. I never understood that stupid 'red line' crap; Bullets are okay, but gas is a no-no....

[If_I_Loved_you]

We don't need to become involved in another damn war over internal issues elsewhere and we sure don't need our kid's dying over the stuff going on in Syria.  The U.S cannot patrol the world and we need to stop "inserting" ourselves into these incidents in other countries.  If the U.N. says it will not abide "chemical weapons" then the U.N. needs to send in troops.  America needs to stay out of it period!  I appreciate the devastation in the hearts and minds of those innocents suffering in Syria, at the same time I don't want kids here dying over there while they work toward creating a different political system.

Diane we don't want to put boots on the ground? But I would love putting some cruise missiles into Syria telling them using chemical weapons on your own people is Stupid. I always love these arguments when people say it's none of are business? Well then we shouldn't have gone to WAR at all against anybody? Fat chance of that happening.

Wait, wait, wait.  This is from the Christian?  How do you know those destroyed with a cruise missile would be those responsible for the chemical weapons? That has not been determined.  It is going to be next to impossible to know who used the chemical weapons in the end.  Are you saying we just bomb anyone to make a point cause gosh killing with chemical weapons is wrong but using cruise missiles is kewl?

Diane yes I'm a christian but you do know that a lot of people who are soldiers have a christian faith? When cruise missiles are used you try to go after targets you feel are the best to hit. Do innocence people die yes.

[Cheshire Cat]

IMO we should stay the hell away from Syria, but unfortunately it looks like Obama will find a way to get involved in that mess. No matter what we do in that mess over there, those people will hate us anyway just for being Americans. Let them handle their own issues in the wonderful world of Sharia Law. Screw the PC crap, it seems like most of those people are hellbent on violence anyway, it's in their religion. I never understood that stupid 'red line' crap; Bullets are okay, but gas is a no-no....

I agree.  If Obama gets us in this mess he will have done what many other Presidents before him have done.  I don't want to see him follow that same ugly road.  My guess is that there is plenty of pressure coming from the military for him to engage.  The chemical weapon crap is fodder for more violence and war.  Seriously, America dropped an atom bomb on civilians.  Are we now pretending that that action was not more violent than chemical weapons are supposed to be?  It used to be the big concern about the development of chemical weapons was for use by terrorists.  In the type of situation we are seeing in Syria regarding chemical weapons, if they were used they were already developed so the worldwide ban on such weaponry and the violence in Iraq in response to alleged chemical weapons did nothing to stop other crazies in other countries from manufacturing them.  So the point becomes what exactly?  More death as a statement against killing?  It's insane.

[Cheshire Cat]

We don't need to become involved in another damn war over internal issues elsewhere and we sure don't need our kid's dying over the stuff going on in Syria.  The U.S cannot patrol the world and we need to stop "inserting" ourselves into these incidents in other countries.  If the U.N. says it will not abide "chemical weapons" then the U.N. needs to send in troops.  America needs to stay out of it period!  I appreciate the devastation in the hearts and minds of those innocents suffering in Syria, at the same time I don't want kids here dying over there while they work toward creating a different political system.

Diane we don't want to put boots on the ground? But I would love putting some cruise missiles into Syria telling them using chemical weapons on your own people is Stupid. I always love these arguments when people say it's none of are business? Well then we shouldn't have gone to WAR at all against anybody? Fat chance of that happening.

Wait, wait, wait.  This is from the Christian?  How do you know those destroyed with a cruise missile would be those responsible for the chemical weapons? That has not been determined.  It is going to be next to impossible to know who used the chemical weapons in the end.  Are you saying we just bomb anyone to make a point cause gosh killing with chemical weapons is wrong but using cruise missiles is kewl?

Diane yes I'm a christian but you do know that a lot of people who are soldiers have a christian faith? When cruise missiles are used you try to go after targets you feel are the best to hit. Do innocence people die yes.

So, what targets are best for the U.S. to go after in this situation?  Do we bomb both Christian and non Christian folks, only Muslims, only Christians, elderly Syrian's, Syrian children, believers, non believers?  Who is it okay to bomb and how do you parse out the bad from the good, the friendlies from the war mongers?  The easy answer is that the military will say it is possible, the truth is that innocent people will die at American hands if we engage in this mess, which is not our mess. This is why our soldiers are committing suicide, why our veterans suffer more P.T.S.D than ever before.  War's like this.  The U.N. can't even get their inspectors into the core of action where the chemical weapons were used.  There is no way to prove who set them off.   Clearly I know there are soldiers of all religious and non religious backgrounds who are part of our military.  My own family has members who have served in all the wars gone by.  My response was squarely in reaction to your words about loving to drop a missile on another country, that will kill innocents mind you, when you so regularly post scripture and talk about the teachings of Jesus. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

IMO we should stay the hell away from Syria, but unfortunately it looks like Obama will find a way to get involved in that mess. No matter what we do in that mess over there, those people will hate us anyway just for being Americans. Let them handle their own issues in the wonderful world of Sharia Law. Screw the PC crap, it seems like most of those people are hellbent on violence anyway, it's in their religion. I never understood that stupid 'red line' crap; Bullets are okay, but gas is a no-no....

I agree.  If Obama gets us in this mess he will have done what many other Presidents before him have done.  I don't want to see him follow that same ugly road.  My guess is that there is plenty of pressure coming from the military for him to engage.  The chemical weapon crap is fodder for more violence and war.  Seriously, America dropped an atom bomb on civilians.  Are we now pretending that that action was not more violent than chemical weapons are supposed to be?  It used to be the big concern about the development of chemical weapons was for use by terrorists.  In the type of situation we are seeing in Syria regarding chemical weapons, if they were used they were already developed so the worldwide ban on such weaponry and the violence in Iraq in response to alleged chemical weapons did nothing to stop other crazies in other countries from manufacturing them.  So the point becomes what exactly?  More death as a statement against killing?  It's insane.

So we do nothing? Because the Middle East problem isn't going away. Egypt is in turmoil! Yemen is in turmoil! Iraq is in turmoil! and so many other area's of the Middle east are in turmoil. Is it best we put are heads in the sands and wish everything will be OK?

[Cheshire Cat]

Yes, we do nothing to further engage a violent situation that we didn't create and that we cannot fix. We do not engage but we help those who have fled, who are injured, who need medicine and any other non violent thing we can do to support them. Let the U.N. handle this situation and the amount of force used to respond.  We are not the world's police and the truth is they hate us for our interference when we go and complain we are at fault when we do nothing.  News flash, we cannot fix the problems in the middle east.  We can only decide how many of our own youth we are willing to lose in a conflict that is not ours to settle.  This has nothing to do with heads in the sand but is rather about looking squarely at the reality of war in a country where nothing will be solved by our involvement. 

[spuwho]

Well, if it means anything, they are starting to deploy people out of Mayport.  Several got their orders in the last few days to ship out to the Mediterranean by air and catch their boats en route.

They have been drilling a lot the last few weeks. If anything they are getting people ready.

It was also reported today that the Russian Navy is dispatching 2 ships to the area. A guided missile frigate and a anti-submarine destroyer.

Anytime you get a lot of military action in one location, some one is going to make a mistake and bad things happen.

[If_I_Loved_you]

We don't need to become involved in another damn war over internal issues elsewhere and we sure don't need our kid's dying over the stuff going on in Syria.  The U.S cannot patrol the world and we need to stop "inserting" ourselves into these incidents in other countries.  If the U.N. says it will not abide "chemical weapons" then the U.N. needs to send in troops.  America needs to stay out of it period!  I appreciate the devastation in the hearts and minds of those innocents suffering in Syria, at the same time I don't want kids here dying over there while they work toward creating a different political system.

Diane we don't want to put boots on the ground? But I would love putting some cruise missiles into Syria telling them using chemical weapons on your own people is Stupid. I always love these arguments when people say it's none of are business? Well then we shouldn't have gone to WAR at all against anybody? Fat chance of that happening.

Wait, wait, wait.  This is from the Christian?  How do you know those destroyed with a cruise missile would be those responsible for the chemical weapons? That has not been determined.  It is going to be next to impossible to know who used the chemical weapons in the end.  Are you saying we just bomb anyone to make a point cause gosh killing with chemical weapons is wrong but using cruise missiles is kewl?

Diane yes I'm a christian but you do know that a lot of people who are soldiers have a christian faith? When cruise missiles are used you try to go after targets you feel are the best to hit. Do innocence people die yes.

So, what targets are best for the U.S. to go after in this situation?  Do we bomb both Christian and non Christian folks, only Muslims, only Christians, elderly Syrian's, Syrian children, believers, non believers?  Who is it okay to bomb and how do you parse out the bad from the good, the friendlies from the war mongers?  The easy answer is that the military will say it is possible, the truth is that innocent people will die at American hands if we engage in this mess, which is not our mess. This is why our soldiers are committing suicide, why our veterans suffer more P.T.S.D than ever before.  War's like this.  The U.N. can't even get their inspectors into the core of action where the chemical weapons were used.  There is no way to prove who set them off.   Clearly I know there are soldiers of all religious and non religious backgrounds who are part of our military.  My own family has members who have served in all the wars gone by.  My response was squarely in reaction to your words about loving to drop a missile on another country, that will kill innocents mind you, when you so regularly post scripture and talk about the teachings of Jesus.

(My response was squarely in reaction to your words about loving to drop a missile on another country, that will kill innocents mind you, when you so regularly post scripture and talk about the teachings of Jesus.) Your Right Diane I did say "But I would love putting some cruise missiles into Syria telling them using chemical weapons on your own people is Stupid." Now Diane did I say I wanted to kill innocence people? Does it happen yes it does but if we do nothing and Bashar al-Assad keeps killing his own people are we not as Guilty as he? And yes I post scripture and I love Jesus but did I say I was perfect? No one here on Earth is!