The Argument to Create Suburbs in 1909

[Metro Jacksonville]

The Argument to Create Suburbs in 1909



Mary Kingsbury Simkhovitch was one of the most passionate attendees of the historic National Conference of City Planning in 1909.  Like many, she was a Social Progressive, concerned with the health and morality of the public.

Simkovitch's speech was primarily concerned with the evils of density---perceived as 'overcrowding'.  Also like many at the conference, she fervently believed that the answer to many of the ills of the era were to reverse the wheels of city density.  Her main contribution to the DNA of the country was to provide a moral component to the planning discussion.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jul-the-argument-to-create-suburbs-in-1909

[BridgeTroll]

As a Social Progressive... I am sure she meant well... 

[BridgeTroll]

Before 1909... there were really only two options... rural(farm) life or city life.  Henry Ford helped change that.  It gave those with the means a way to move out of the city yet still have access to it.  Convenient, fast, reliable individual transport.  Of course... that brought about its own set of problems...

[I-10east]

So lets cut to the chase, are yall saying that suburbs shouldn't have ever been created? Cities should consist of a skyscraper packed downtown, completely bordered by dense tree forest/rural land etc? 

[HisBuffPVB]

Many of the settlers that came to the south did not want to live in attached housing, town houses, etc. They wanted to live surrounded by their own piece of land, for farming, for distance from their neighbors, etc. It was the difference between the scots/irish settlers and the british settlers, but this is only one element and a very simplistic explanation. Why did people go to the burbs? for space for their children, and in Jacksonville, for many years, and almost still true today, certain parts of the county and the beach have, by road, easy access to downtown with few lights. Mathews Bridge opened Arlington as Acosta opened southside years before. But as critical mass develops, more people would like to live downtown or in an urban environment, and appear to be doing so. This does not address African Americans except as you follow their communities and their communities growth patterns, you see the same thing.

[thelakelander]

Certain demographics of people went to the burbs in mass because of government subsidies like investments in highways and the GI Bill. African Americans did not early on because they weren't allowed to take advantage of the same subsidized privileges.

[thelakelander]

Many of the settlers that came to the south did not want to live in attached housing, town houses, etc. They wanted to live surrounded by their own piece of land, for farming, for distance from their neighbors, etc. It was the difference between the scots/irish settlers and the british settlers, but this is only one element and a very simplistic explanation. Why did people go to the burbs? for space for their children, and in Jacksonville, for many years, and almost still true today, certain parts of the county and the beach have, by road, easy access to downtown with few lights. Mathews Bridge opened Arlington as Acosta opened southside years before. But as critical mass develops, more people would like to live downtown or in an urban environment, and appear to be doing so. This does not address African Americans except as you follow their communities and their communities growth patterns, you see the same thing.

I'd say, it's not largely this cut and dry. Denser cities, no matter the region, tend to be that way because of age (initial pre-auto age urban boom), land constraints (water, mountains, etc.) and taxation policies (some places taxed by width of street frontage). In the South, DC, Richmond, Miami, New Orleans, Savannah, Charleston, Louisville, Norfolk, etc. are all various examples of this. Early 20th century Jax had some of these density characteristics (shotgun housing for example) as well.

[I-10east]

Certain demographics of people went to the burbs in mass because of government subsidies like investments in highways and the GI Bill. African Americans did not early on because they weren't allowed to take advantage of the same subsidized privileges.

+100.

Of course I'm in no way endorsing segregation being black myself, but desegregation had an adverse effect on the black community. When blacks moved out to the burbs, many left the black community where thriving black owned businesses were; Back then before desegregation, blacks had no choice but to support the black community.

[thelakelander]

Desegregation did hurt historical black communities.  Those communities were stable when blacks of all incomes were forced to live there.  However, even during their heyday, their public infrastructure, schools, parks, etc. were substandard to those of neighborhoods "across the tracks" due to the racial political structure at the time.  Many of these neighborhoods were further economically damaged by public policies that resulted in them being blasted with neighborhood/connectivity destroying freeways, being forced to live adjacent to public ash incinerators/heavy industry  and housing projects. Once desegregation came, it's not hard to see why those who had the means, left neighborhoods that had always been under funded compared to other areas of town.

[thelakelander]

Btw, here is a picture of COJ's ash incinerator that was located in the middle of Durkeeville and Sugar Hill. 



This is the thing that has Project New Ground replacing top soil all over the area today.

[I-10east]

Desegregation did hurt historical black communities.  Those communities were stable when blacks of all incomes were forced to live there.  However, even during their heyday, their public infrastructure, schools, parks, etc. were substandard to those of neighborhoods "across the tracks" due to the racial political structure at the time.  Many of these neighborhoods were further economically damaged by public policies that resulted in them being blasted with neighborhood/connectivity destroying freeways, being forced to live adjacent to public ash incinerators/heavy industry  and housing projects. Once desegregation came, it's not hard to see why those who had the means, left neighborhoods that had always been under funded compared to other areas of town.

Well said. That incinerator on the pic was near Payne St right? My mom was born here in Jax, and grew up on 5th St near Payne. She told me about the trucks that used to leak smelly waste in that neighborhood.   

[thelakelander]

Suburbs were deliberately created at the government level in order to drive demassification.  In Jville, Springfield, New Springfield, Riverside, Durkeeville, Panama Park, South Jacksonville were all early suburbinization projects driven by the new zeal to plan the cities.

A few of those neighborhoods date back to the 19th century. Springfield specifically is just as old as LaVilla.  South Jacksonville was a completely seperate city with its own industrial base and Durkeeville, New Town, etc. grew as the black population expanded west around Edward Waters and the massive railyards in the area.  Much of their early rapid growth came as a result of a population boom in the first decade following the Great Fire of 1901.  So all of their original development patterns were not driven by a zeal to plan the city at the time.  Much of this development was generated by the same element that drives development today.  The private sector's desire to make some cash.  However, at the time, the government wasn't subsidizing highways. Instead, these guys were funding private streetcar lines to connect their developments to the city.

Here in Jax, we were literally the first Southern city to implement zoning, and city planning as well as the only city to implement a zoning plan that wasnt race based.

Are you sure about this?  For instance, take a look at the proximity of historical heavy industrial areas to historically black and white neighborhoods.  You'll overwhelming find that areas where blacks were forced to live are those adjacent to early heavy industrial areas. There are too many examples of this across the Northside to be simple coincidence.  Another thing that stands out is the river itself.  No black neighborhood had direct access to the St. Johns riverfront. Damn shame! Also, I've got documents showing some neighborhoods like St. Johns Park had restrictions that kept "negros" from being able to live there.

[thelakelander]

Desegregation did hurt historical black communities.  Those communities were stable when blacks of all incomes were forced to live there.  However, even during their heyday, their public infrastructure, schools, parks, etc. were substandard to those of neighborhoods "across the tracks" due to the racial political structure at the time.  Many of these neighborhoods were further economically damaged by public policies that resulted in them being blasted with neighborhood/connectivity destroying freeways, being forced to live adjacent to public ash incinerators/heavy industry  and housing projects. Once desegregation came, it's not hard to see why those who had the means, left neighborhoods that had always been under funded compared to other areas of town.

Well said. That incinerator on the pic was near Payne St right? My mom was born here in Jax, and grew up on 5th St near Payne. She told me about the trucks that used to leak smelly waste in that neighborhood.   

Yes.  Here are some shotgun homes that still remain standing roughly a block from the incinerator site.  For those who don't think Jacksonville once had Midwestern style density, this was the primary style of housing for neighborhoods like LaVilla, Hansontown, Eastside, etc. around the turn of the early 20th century.


"They said the homes were built too close together, but those were ways to push us out."
said former resident Olivia Forest to the Times Union - 2/4/96 --- quote from former Sugar Hill resident who remembers being forced out of their homes for being "too dense."

[thelakelander]

In regards to the transcribed story from 1909 I don't believe what they consider as suburban are what we consider burbs today. Our major cities had serious overcrowding problems during that era.  You had places like Chicago, San Francisco and even Jax, burning down to the ground.  You had sanitary conditions resulting in massive yellow fever epidemics. Manufacturing plants poisoning entire sections of town.


St. Louis - 1939


Inside a New York tenement. This is how many of these cities were packing in the density.


Downtown Pittsburgh

What's described in their long distance programme is essentially something the density and scale of Jacksonville's walkable neighborhoods.  In fact, most cities increased in population density until the end of WWII. What we have today is a result of many technology changes, public subsidies, decisions, etc. that were made decades after this conference.

[thelakelander]

Suburbs were deliberately created at the government level in order to drive demassification.  In Jville, Springfield, New Springfield, Riverside, Durkeeville, Panama Park, South Jacksonville were all early suburbinization projects driven by the new zeal to plan the cities.

A few of those neighborhoods date back to the 19th century. Springfield specifically is just as old as LaVilla.  South Jacksonville was a completely seperate city with its own industrial base and Durkeeville, New Town, etc. grew as the black population expanded west around Edward Waters and the massive railyards in the area.  Much of their early rapid growth came as a result of a population boom in the first decade following the Great Fire of 1901.  So all of their original development patterns were not driven by a zeal to plan the city at the time.  Much of this development was generated by the same element that drives development today.  The private sector's desire to make some cash.  However, at the time, the government wasn't subsidizing highways. Instead, these guys were funding private streetcar lines to connect their developments to the city.

Here in Jax, we were literally the first Southern city to implement zoning, and city planning as well as the only city to implement a zoning plan that wasnt race based.

Are you sure about this?  For instance, take a look at the proximity of historical heavy industrial areas to historically black and white neighborhoods.  You'll overwhelming find that areas where blacks were forced to live are those adjacent to early heavy industrial areas. There are too many examples of this across the Northside to be simple coincidence.  Another thing that stands out is the river itself.  No black neighborhood had direct access to the St. Johns riverfront. Damn shame! Also, I've got documents showing some neighborhoods like St. Johns Park had restrictions that kept "negros" from being able to live there.

Land covenants on properties are a separate thing altogether from the race based zoning that passed southern state legislatures and sity planning boards.

And they are also more wide spectrumed.  They exclude all kinds of people, based on religion, sex, race, ethnicity and in some areas, marital status.  We still have a form of this kind of contract in retirement communities where no one is allowed to live there under the age of 55.

But Zoning excluded whole areas by public law to one or another race.

We never instituted this kind of zoning.  Our planner came from MIT and worked in Boston before coming here to spread the evangelism of City Planning to the rest of the south.  His mentality was for public health.

I think if you do a search of the site for Jacob Riis, you will find a lot of the tenement photos of the overcrowding era have been posted.

I posted the one Jacob Riis tenement shot for readers who aren't familiar with our older threads. I also mixed in a few shots of other large cities at the time to illustrate common conditions at the time that people were reacting to.  I think it help frames the perspective of the text.  As for race based zoning in Jax, I'm still not sold. How do you explain the relationship of heavy industry and black neighborhoods? To be honest, I'd most likely need to see the actual zoning code for myself.