Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

[FSBA]

I think if Zimmerman had it to do all over again, he would probably do it exactly the same way.  He got away with it after all.  And now he's famous and a folk hero amongst a bunch of people who fantasize that they too can kill a teenager that they don't like the looks of.

When the book and film money comes rolling in, and he sues broadcast news to settle for an undisclosed sum, the lesson will be complete:  "Does your life suck?  Are you a loser nobody?  Shoot a kid!  It helps if he's black, but anyone 'scary' will do!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

For the sake of arguement, let's go ahead and assume Zimmerman was out for blood that night. He is an evil racist who just wanted to kill a black man.

Do it all over again? Including where he had his name drug through the media, hounded wherever he went for over a year, and essentially made out to be the worst human being imaginable?

Then again maybe he'll reconsider when it dawns on him he will have virtually no private life and will have to watch his back 24/7. Atleast until the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton find a fresher source of blood to suck off.

[thelakelander]

Jaybird, how has this been "proven false?"

Shine, in a place like the Southside of Chicago or even our Moncrief, your "reasonable" approach would get you mugged 9 out of 10 times. If a creepy guy you don't know is following you in the dark & rain, he's typically up to no good.

There is some truth in what you say – but it's not "my reasonable approach."  The Reasonable Man Doctrine is the legal standard in most every state in the US.  It's not a "black ink" rule of law but subject to interpretation, most notably, that of a jury.  One reason deadly force should only be used as an absolute last resort.  But also, why your conduct needs to show prudence.  In the case of being followed, it would be smart to do some things to ensure your safety and to validate you may be in danger – step into a commercial establishment – turn and cross the street and challenge someone following you – order them to stop following you – run.  If they start running after you – now what is "reasonable" in the eyes of the community? Maybe, may not be.

Being a middle aged white male, I am statistically among the least likely group to be the victim of gun violence.  Red meat and Twinkies will more likely settle me in a grave then a 9.  But consider that part of the population most vulnerable to sexual assault.  If you apply some of the more outrageous comments about Zimmerman, it would suggest a person would need to be physically sexually violated before using force?  The fact remains, under the law, you do not have to be injured/assaulted to legally use justifiable force. 

I would agree, its clear as mud.  And, even if you are right, your life can be significantly derailed.  I would bet if Zimmerman had it all to do over, he would have taken the beating, swallowed is pride, and gone back to condo life, takeout pizza and Netflix. Bernie De LaRonda has been a prosecutor for 30 years.  Zimmerman was only the second murder case he lost.  If De LaRonda cannot get a conviction, exactly what would have.  Justice?  I see vengeance.

I alluded to the Adrian Crump case earlier.  Crump, African American shot and killed a 15 year old white boy in Jacksonville who put a rock through Crump's window with a sling shot.  This was before "stand your ground" and you had the legal obligation to retreat.  Crump, left his home with a pistol, went down the street after the boy's vehicle, confronted him and shot him dead. Crump was acquitted by a jury.  I am not going to get into the merits of this case, but no one staged a protest march saying the legal system unduly benefits African American's who use deadly force. There is no rational basis to say Zimmerman or the outcome of the case was affected by race. While the fact that it was brought to trial without meeting the standard of evidence, and most certainly the fact that it was not presented to a Grand Jury, was a reaction to public pressure.  Today, those seeking to falsely capitalize and agitate on  racial grounds are doing nothing for race relations in this country.  Vengeance is not justice.

Most keep harping on race.  Even those that say the issue isn't about race. You even mentioned it by bringing up an example of another killing with skin colors switched to prove your point. Since I believe in the concept of Institutional Racism is alive and well in our country, the only real racial connection I see in this particular trial is the initial profiling of Martin, which set off the entire chain of events, IMO. GZ doesn't view TM as a suspicious person if he was not of a male of a certain skin color. No following happens and each guy goes on his merry way.

However, the real issue (which I think we both agree on) is the interpretation and understanding of laws surrounding this particular case.  For me, that's not about race. No one, regardless of their skin color, should be able to be legally killed under these types of circumstances.  If we need to better flesh out laws and our understanding on them, then let's do it.

[BridgeTroll]

I think if Zimmerman had it to do all over again, he would probably do it exactly the same way.  He got away with it after all.  And now he's famous and a folk hero amongst a bunch of people who fantasize that they too can kill a teenager that they don't like the looks of.

When the book and film money comes rolling in, and he sues broadcast news to settle for an undisclosed sum, the lesson will be complete:  "Does your life suck?  Are you a loser nobody?  Shoot a kid!  It helps if he's black, but anyone 'scary' will do!"

Wow... this sez it all...

[JeffreyS]

Here's something that helps flavor the whole situation for me.  Walking through the office this morning one of the women who work here is laughing watching a video of a Black minister explaining to his congregation why Trayvon had it coming. Why the preacher thought it was ok to give a comical sermon blaming Trayvon and she thought it was ok to be laughing about a situation that left a 17 year old boy dead I think is disgusting.  I wonder how many Zimmerman supporters are proud to be on their team?

[Shine]

Since I believe in the concept of Institutional Racism is alive and well in our country, the only real racial connection I see in this particular trial is the initial profiling of Martin, which set off the entire chain of events, IMO. GZ doesn't view TM as a suspicious person if he was not of a male of a certain skin color. No following happens and each guy goes on his merry way.

However, the real issue (which I think we both agree on) is the interpretation and understanding of laws surrounding this particular case.  For me, that's not about race. No one, regardless of their skin color, should be able to be legally killed under these types of circumstances.  If we need to better flesh out laws and our understanding on them, then let's do it.

True, Martian was profiled as a potential "criminal."  But there is no evidence that it was racial in nature.  If the community had hired an off-duty police officer, or a private security guard to patrol the neighborhood, I would imagine they would have noticed Martian's behavior as "non-characteristic" of the community – he is on foot in a car based community, dark and past sunset,  he is out in the rain, he is concealing his face, he is cutting through property, not staying on the sidewalk, and when notices he is being observed, he moves to a place he cannot be seen.  If I were in Zimmerman's place, on the heels of four burglaries in my community, including a home invasion, I would have, at minimum watched to see where this individual went.   Yes, I may have followed him.  I am certainly not a racist.  And, I think I probably would have diffused the situation before it became violent.  I would say Zimmerman's response of "No, I aint got a problem," was asking for trouble when a clearly pissed off Martian shows up behind him.  "Do you live here?" probably would have been all it took. 

While I do not support "stand your ground," I do support the right to legally possess a firearm for personal protection.  Zimmerman's case would have come back the same if "stand your ground" was changed back to its pre 2005 text.  And to clarify, "Stand your ground" is part of Florida's self-defense statute, that is why it was part of the jury instructions as it is a section of the law.

Yes, Marin was a minor, but repeatedly referring to him as a "kid" or a "child" accentuates an emotionally driven response.  Had Zimmerman not acted in self-defense, and sustained only the injuries he had when the attack was stopped, Martian would likely have been arrested and charged with aggravated assault and charged as an adult due to the serious, violent nature of the charge.  Had Zimmerman not been able to stop Martian at that point, it is likely Martian would continue to beat Zimmerman and adding to his injuries to an unknown point.

[thelakelander]

Also, there's a difference between racial profiling and being a racist.  I do believe that people can profile with a built in perspective on a situation that may be based upon historical racial stereotypes.  If I were Zimmerman, what looked suspicious to him that night may have not looked the same through my eyes. However, I don't believe that makes Zimmerman a racist.  Sheclown posted a great video of people's reactions to a white guy, black guy, and white girl attempting to steal a bike somewhere on this site, last week.  I think the reactions of people are a great example of the point I'm trying to make.

As for the kid thing, if Zimmerman had sex with Martin, he would have been thrown in jail.  Martin was a kid. All of us know we're a lot smarter now at our current ages than we were in high school and residing under the roof of an adult. There's nothing wrong pointing that out. Especially, when there's a push by many to paint him as an equal victim, sharing the responsibility of what happened that night with a grown man who pursued him.

[Shine]

I personally think that people should be pissed off that their laws are being created by private right wing boards with the complicity of huge corporations and a few local collaborators.

Yes, they should be.   Apathy is an unfortunate choice.

[sheclown]

Also, there's a difference between racial profiling and being a racist.  I do believe that people can profile with a built in perspective on a situation that may be based upon historical racial stereotypes.  If I were Zimmerman, what looked suspicious to him that night may have not looked the same through my eyes. However, I don't believe that makes Zimmerman a racist.  Sheclown posted a great video of people's reactions to a white guy, black guy, and white girl attempting to steal a bike somewhere on this site, last week.  I think the reactions of people are a great example of the point I'm trying to make.

As for the kid thing, if Zimmerman had sex with Martin, he would have been thrown in jail.  Martin was a kid. All of us know we're a lot smarter now at our current ages than we were in high school and residing under the roof of an adult. There's nothing wrong pointing that out. Especially, when there's a push by many to paint him as an equal victim, sharing the responsibility of what happened that night with a grown man who pursued him.

I will share a story from my personal experience.

I was walking down the sidewalk near Pasco's Hardware.  This was a couple of years ago.  I feel, for the most part, safe wherever I go.  I don't worry about it too much.

However, I was walking down the sidewalk when a group of three or four young black men were approaching me --

I felt myself tense up. 

As they passed me by, one of them said "hey, Miss Glory". 

I said to myself, "damn".

It is so ingrained into my consciousness that I reacted automatically.  Without thinking.

Does this action make me a racist?  I don't believe it does.

Does it prove that I can respond with institutional racism?  I believe it does.

[Shine]

As for the kid thing . . . Martin was a kid. All of us know we're a lot smarter now at our current ages than we were in high school and residing under the roof of an adult. There's nothing wrong pointing that out. Especially, when there's a push by many to paint him as an equal victim, sharing the responsibility of what happened that night with a grown man who pursued him.

I think that is fair.   I would say the use of "kid" to imply in some way "helpless" is my concern. A 17 year old is completely capable of inflecting bodily harm on another.

[sheclown]

As for the kid thing . . . Martin was a kid. All of us know we're a lot smarter now at our current ages than we were in high school and residing under the roof of an adult. There's nothing wrong pointing that out. Especially, when there's a push by many to paint him as an equal victim, sharing the responsibility of what happened that night with a grown man who pursued him.

I think that is fair.   I would say the use of "kid" to imply in some way "helpless" is my concern. A 17 year old is completely capable of inflecting bodily harm on another.

and yet has legal protections covering his inexperience

[FSBA]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/story?id=19735432

George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.

Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of a family of four -- two parents and two children -- trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.

[sheclown]

Thanks Sheclown, I appreciate your opinion.  My personal experience and opinion often seems so different from some here.  I find it interesting to try to see where people develop their beliefs.   Read this article and tell me what you think (I agree with its premis):

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/radical-gun-control-zombies-exploit-grieving-black-community//#more

What's Stand-Your-Ground Have to Do With It?

Stand your ground, IMHO, is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.  I really don't have strong feelings about gun control.  I have owned handguns in the past, when I went camping in remote places it gave me a sense of safety.  That being said, I'm not in favor of liberal gun laws either.

As far as SYG goes, I think it is asking for trouble since the survivor of the conflict is the one who tells the story.  Seems ripe for trouble.

And Stephen's ALEC info is rather mind-blowing.

The Grief and Anger in the Black Community is Real

duh

The Disinformation War Waged on the Black Community

I think that river flows in both directions.


If The Lies Are Believed, Anger and Outrage Are Understandable, Inevitable

how generous

So How Does All This Tie Into Stand-Your-Ground Protests?

I do think it is a safe target (and a worthy one at that).  It is easier for people to target their anger at SYG than deal with the institutional racism that we need to deal with.

Radical Gun Control Zombies Remain Mindlessly Persistent

It is admirable to be persistent when you are fighting for a cause.

Radical Gun Control Zombies' Message Crystal Clear–Aaaargh!

And this should surprise anyone?
----------------------------------------------------------

What I do appreciate is your attention to that stalking matter NotNow.  And in spite of the fact that we often disagree, I usually, mostly always, appreciate hearing your perspective.

Finally,  this is much larger than a problem for the black community.  It is a problem for all -- the whole community.

[thelakelander]

The law legalized the killing.  I think by now, that's pretty clear.  To many people, the guy got away with murder, which is why there is a cry to have the laws reviewed and modified, if possible. 

[fsquid]

Good interview.  It shows that the system worked and the evidence presented overcame this woman's emotion and bias.  Thanks for posting.

[fsquid]

Good interview.  It shows that the system worked and the evidence presented overcame this woman's emotion and bias.  Thanks for posting.

You're welcome.  Luckily no one has ever worried about the system being broken, fsquid.  Its the laws. Unless you were worried about the court system being 'broken' and just kept it to yourself.

Perhaps thats why you havent responded to any of the postings about ALEC.

maybe not on here, but I've heard it among people at work, etc.  I agree with you and lake that the law certainly should get a second look.