Lets Talk Racial Profiling

[Cheshire Cat]

Racial profiling is a practice that has become part of the public outcry as a result of the death of Trayvon Martin.  Right here in Jacksonville a peaceful march was held in support of Trayvon and the organizers of the march said that it is time to stop racial profiling.

Because this conversation is now being driven by the trial of George Zimmerman and he has become of the face of one who racially profiles I have a couple of things I think should be addressed when it comes to the issue and what is driving it. 

Angela Corey has publicly made the statement that the Zimmerman trial was not about race.  She further indicated that it was her position that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon as a "criminal" not because he was black.  Further is the reality that Zimmerman was not a person of authority, just a guy on neighborhood watch.  Possibly a guy with racist attitudes, but not a person of authority, just a guy.  Keeping that in mind I think we have to define what we mean by profiling and then what we mean by racial profiling.  If the angst is about racial profiling, which it seems to be, how does one suppose that we can stop individual bigots from looking through the lens of race at others?

So, what is profiling?
What is racial profiling?
How does one get in the head of someone who profiles and change their views?
What laws should there be about profiling and if we have those laws are we in some ways saying that law enforcement cannot use race when looking for a crime suspect when clear and full descriptions of everything from height, weight, eye color, clothing and race can help to find a suspect?

Below is the link to the TU story on the rally and the sentiments expressed there.

Her voice broke as she addressed the crowd about what happened to Trayvon Martin, shot by Zimmerman last year in Sanford. She said racial profiling and oppression occur every day. She called for "a new beginning not only for our people but for all Americans who thirst for a different life

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-07-14/story/rally-protesting-george-zimmermans-acquittal-draws-400-plus-jacksonville#ixzz2Z8wJ3Sbm

[Cheshire Cat]

From Wikipedia.

Racial profiling:


Racial profiling is the use of an individual's race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel as a key factor in deciding whether to engage in enforcement (e.g. make a traffic stop or arrest). The practice is controversial and is illegal in many jurisdictions. It should not be confused with offender profiling, which is an genuine investigative tool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_profiling

[Cheshire Cat]

From the ACLU on racial profiling.

http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/racial-profiling

Racial profiling is law enforcement and private security practices that disproportionately target people of color for investigation and enforcement. The ACLU works on behalf of individuals who have been victims of racial profiling by airlines, police, and government agencies. Our work also encompasses major initiatives in public education and advocacy, including the creation of essential resources, lobbying for the passage of data collection and anti-profiling legislation, and litigation of airline and highway profiling cases

[BridgeTroll]

Both definitions focus on law enforcement and private security firms... The logical question is a homeowner as a member of a neighborhood watch... law enforcement?

Racial profiling is law enforcement and private security practices

and

Racial profiling is the use of an individual's race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel

[Cheshire Cat]

Both definitions focus on law enforcement and private security firms... The logical question is a homeowner as a member of a neighborhood watch... law enforcement?

Racial profiling is law enforcement and private security practices

and

Racial profiling is the use of an individual's race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel

To my view they are not.  That would make anyone who is part of a neighborhood watch group an official of some sort, which of course they are not. 

[BridgeTroll]

Both definitions focus on law enforcement and private security firms... The logical question is a homeowner as a member of a neighborhood watch... law enforcement?

Racial profiling is law enforcement and private security practices

and

Racial profiling is the use of an individual's race or ethnicity by law enforcement personnel

To my view they are not.  That would make anyone who is part of a neighborhood watch group an official of some sort, which of course they are not. 

Then by definition Mr Zimmerman could not have profiled Mr Martin?

[Cheshire Cat]

According to Angela Corey, Zimmerman did not profile Trayvon because of his race, but profiled him as a "criminal".  If so that is offender profiling and to my understanding that can only be used by authorities.  Zimmerman was not paid and not part of an authority.  Just a guy who was part of a neighborhood watch group.

You can view her words regarding this on the link below.  It's a video.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/angela-corey-prosecutors-speak-george-033320376.html

[BridgeTroll]

Soooo... if Zimmerman is...

not paid and not part of an authority

Then by the definitions we have to date... he cannot profile.

I suppose he can pre judge... or stereotype... or _________ .

But he cannot profile... as he is not a member of law enforcement or a private security force.  He is a homeowner and neighborhood watch guy...

[JayBird]

I believe the use of "racial profiling" is now spreading outside of law enforcement. It is actually stated as a mitigating factor in a lawsuit against WalMart for employee relations, and nowhere is any law enforcement exist in that situation, yet it is a legal standing for the case, at least in the claims of the defendants. 

As for profiling, well lets say judging, so as for judging him as a 'criminal', did his darker skin have anything to do with that?

[BridgeTroll]

I believe the use of "racial profiling" is now spreading outside of law enforcement. It is actually stated as a mitigating factor in a lawsuit against WalMart for employee relations, and nowhere is any law enforcement exist in that situation, yet it is a legal standing for the case, at least in the claims of the defendants. 

As for profiling, well lets say judging, so as for judging him as a 'criminal', did his darker skin have anything to do with that?

He was likely "more suspicious" for young black men... as the community had seen some of them committing crimes...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/zimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html

Conversations with several residents, however, suggest that Zimmerman's calls reflect a wider feeling of concern and distrust in the community. For years, Twin Lakes residents had been on edge—demonstrated by their decision last September to start a neighborhood-watch organization, which was initiated by Zimmerman himself. The burglary of Olivia Bertalan's home was just one of at least eight reported over the previous 14 months—several of which, neighbors said, involved young black men. On Feb. 26, the odds were stacked against Martin: he was a young black man in a neighborhood that was feeling besieged by crime and blaming it—fairly or not—on people who looked like him.

[AngryMuffin]

Hmmmm.... lets see cops are racist for profiling young black men.  They must be racist.

If they were racist how come they also don't profile old black women? I mean a racist wouldn't just pick a specific gender and age range of blacks? So they are discriminating racists. They just pick on some blacks of a certain age and a certain gender.

And for some reason these racist cops completely ignore Asians and people from India even though a lot of people from India are darker than people of african decent.

Thinking back to my youth in my late teens that cops used to be on my case all the time and I'm white. Maybe they just hate all young males?

It's so confusing to me how this racism works. Maybe someone could explain it better to me.

[Cheshire Cat]

Hmmmm.... lets see cops are racist for profiling young black men.  They must be racist.

If they were racist how come they also don't profile old black women? I mean a racist wouldn't just pick a specific gender and age range of blacks? So they are discriminating racists. They just pick on some blacks of a certain age and a certain gender.

And for some reason these racist cops completely ignore Asians and people from India even though a lot of people from India are darker than people of african decent.

Thinking back to my youth in my late teens that cops used to be on my case all the time and I'm white. Maybe they just hate all young males?

It's so confusing to me how this racism works. Maybe someone could explain it better to me.

I don't think anyone has said anything negative about the police on this thread AM.  Just an FYI, I sit on the Sheriffs Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee and have a great respect for police officers.  I think what we are trying to fathom out on this thread is exactly what is meant by racial profiling.   Perhaps you are referring to offender profiling which is different.  You seem to have some anger or judgment behind your posts and it distracts from the conversation. Do you think people are profiled for their race or more by the standards of offender profiling?  If you respond please do so with consideration and not accusation and not directed toward a commentary that is not taking place.  Reasonable conversation is welcome.

[BridgeTroll]

In the Zimmerman case... we can reasonably assume... as a neighborhood watch... that he was "on the lookout" for young black males... specifically because young black males had been implicated in recent burglaries and thefts around the complex...

In a recent "crime spree" here in Jacksonville a black male was suspected of robbing a CVS and murdering an employee of a restaurant.

I am certain the police concentrated or were hyper vigilant regarding black males in the vicinity.  I think it would have been a distinct probability that some innocent black males were eyed with suspicion and even stopped and questioned.

My guess is that this is NOT considered "profiling" as the police were looking for a specific "unknown black male".  It may be that this distinction may not hold much water for those innocent black males who were stopped and questioned.

[thelakelander]

^A history and description of Zimmerman's 46 calls to 911 since 2004.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

[BridgeTroll]

^A history and description of Zimmerman's 46 calls to 911 since 2004.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

Another article by Daily Beast putting those calls into context...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/zimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html