Transit Oriented Development Workshop coming in August

[thelakelander]

For those that are interested in Transit Oriented Development happening locally, the American Planning Association and COJ will be hosting a workshop. 

[Jason]

I'm impressed.  Looks like the $10 fee will be worth it.

[hanjin1]

I saw some old car lots that were being demolished in that area. I guess they have started.

[thelakelander]

There are historical local success stories, but the streetcar lines that created Jacksonville's original TODs were pulled up or paved over in the 1930s.

[tufsu1]

Bay Street Station?
Kings Avenue Station?
Jackson Square in San Marco?
Carlton Jones is the speaker??

Arent there any local TOD success stories?

The purpose of the workshop is to talk about what's going on nationally....primarily new developments...as such, the City asked that some local developers be included.

[tufsu1]

they do have a speaking slot...as does JTA and FDOT...but the featured speaker is a national expert from D.C.

[Ocklawaha]

Maybe a discussion of those would be in order.

I suppose that, as usual, you have some of those in mind?

I bet ock is probably cholic with examples, just waiting to sneeze them out.

LMAO

I took a trip on the Ortega car line as well as what is left of Murray Hill and Edison-Lackawanna before I get the new digital camera. But needless to say, they are all lined with cool neighboorhood friendly developments from back in the day. Even more interesting, with a couple of exceptions nothing but decay has taken place since the streetcars went down. This would make an interesting article in light of this up coming meeting.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Sounds cool, got the camera, you game for going along, someone taking notes (we can pull dates later) and one catching photos? I know the car lines.

Ocklawaha

[Ocklawaha]

Certainly thats got to be more relevant than the most visible example of failure and boondogglery in the sad history of transit, the Kings Avenue station.

Although to be fair to Carlton, it does seem as though the JTA went out of their way to sabotage any hope of success by simply not supervising the Skyway, allowing it to be locked at 6 pm and on the weekends, thereby turning the parking garage into an elaborate trap.

Well said, but the single most stunning thing about that project is stopping the Skyway short of the Garage, and putting the garage in a roadway no-mans land, without access or exit from 95, Beach/Atlantic. If and when they re-re-re-do the interchanges, lets hope they build NB/SB ramps to and from 95. A remake of Kings Avenue with easy access would do wonders for the whole area and jump start mass transit. I'd bet money that park and ride would soar![/color][/b]

Ocklawaha

[Ocklawaha]

I wonder if you could put together a retro TOD list Ock?

Ortega Village
Fairfax
Fishweir
park on Herschel
Avondale (note the divided road west of the "village" ends at Herschel, the car line and the GATE.)
King Street
Oak
5-Points
(new buildings across line where it went from Oak to May)
May st. all along
May and Forest (blue building with odd angle in it (duh, trolley line)
Then through the dead meadows of Brooklyn *car barn where the skyway facility is today

Edgewood at the Railroad? Ditto,
Railroad to College
College
jog to Dellwood
to Forest
to Myrtle (subway)
to Bay
to Riverside

Raiload shops to McDuff
Mc Duff to Edison
Edison to Forest
Forest to May
May to car barn

Hundreds of period building clusters along these routes, sadly many on Forest and Dellwood are under the freeway today. Brooklyn is gone, and May cut up.

BTW: JEA told me the high power 13,000 KV transmission lines were/are in pipe along the streetcar routes, except where they went overhead out of town. Streetcars typically run on 600 volt DC. but can be AC powered. AC traction is much newer and requires more volts, DC ramps up the amps for Air Conditioning systems... but all in all, I'm of the opinion if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Do the DC, any kid that EVER had a battery powered toy could work on it!

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Although to be fair to Carlton, it does seem as though the JTA went out of their way to sabotage any hope of success by simply not supervising the Skyway, allowing it to be locked at 6 pm and on the weekends, thereby turning the parking garage into an elaborate trap.

To be fair to Carlton, Kings Avenue Station is not a real TOD.  No matter what wolf tickets, some local are calling it, its really a TAD (Transit Adjacent Development), which is a huge difference in the urban planning world.  Its a project that would have been feasible for the location, regardless of whether the skyway is a block away or not.  Real TODs have mass transit as a central focal point, not a side act.  The Bay Street Station and Jackson Square projects better fit the definition of Transit Oriented Development.

[thelakelander]

Ock, I would love to go along with you and catalog.

Anyone good with photos?

Oretga Village

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/713/117/

Fairfax (the street is this wide, because streetcar tracks once ran in this area)


Park & King


Five Points


Edgewood Avenue


Main Street


Hendricks Avenue


The list goes on.  Just about any commercial district in town, where a decent number of brick buildings line the street, the date back to pre-1930's, were most likely along old streetcar routes.
These areas also happen to rate the highest in www.walkscore.com's recent rankings.  If we what Jacksonville to become walkable again.  The answer is simple and clear.....build rail.

[thelakelander]

The pattern of old streetcar tracks in Aberdeen Street, in Avondale. A nice image for those urbanites that don't believe streetcar routes are compatible for residential dominated streets in our historic districts.


While the focus of this upcoming TOD workshop deals with new construction TODs.  We can learn alot about how to best develop today's TOD by taking a serious look into how they were developed around the turn of the century.

[Ocklawaha]

Sure thing y'all ASAP. We'll have to beat this $&#& RAIN... But most of the work needs to be shot along Oak and May, Snips of Dellwood, College and Edison. Another area is San Marco. In distant areas of the Northside there are still a few visible. Buffalo and Talleyrand (the ties were tracks were visible in recent sewer repairs).

Anyone still doubt that Main can't do the job for streetcars? That new median is up to 36 feet wide, most being 24'. 8Th is 8-9 feet in width. All fits just replace black with green grass.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

The new Main median is not 36' wide.  Its going to be the same narrow thing they currently have in place between 1st and 4th.  By my count, it can't be anymore than 10' to 12' wide.  Imo, as long as Main remains an FDOT funded highway, you won't see streetcars on it any time soon.  Its difficult enough just getting pedestrian curb cuts there.  Ripping up what they are spending millions to do now to put down track in existing road lanes would be WWIII.